WEBVTT

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All right.

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Microsoft abruptly terminated the accounts

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of two multiple actually FOSS projects.

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Employers are now using personal data to

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figure out the lowest salary that you'll

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accept.

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And the FBI was able to recover deleted

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signal messages from a device's local

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notification database.

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Busy week this week coming up on This

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Week in Privacy number forty eight.

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So stay tuned.

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Welcome back to This Week in Privacy,

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our weekly series where we discuss the

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latest updates with what we've been

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working on within the Privacy Guides

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community,

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and this week's top stories in data

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privacy and cybersecurity.

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I'm Jordan,

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and with me this week is Nate.

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How are you doing, Nate?

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I'm doing pretty good.

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It's been a good week.

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How are you?

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I'm doing good,

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getting ready to dive into this top story

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here.

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So this week,

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kind of a huge story that's been going

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around.

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Microsoft abruptly terminates VeraCrypt

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account, halting Windows updates.

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So basically, quoting from the article,

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Microsoft has terminated an account

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associated with VeraCrypt,

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a popular and long-running piece of

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encryption software,

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throwing future Windows updates of the

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tool into doubt.

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Veracrypt's developer told for media,

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the move highlights the sometimes delicate

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supply chain involved in the publication

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of open source software,

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especially software that relies on big

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companies, even tangentially.

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So according to the Veracrypt developer,

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I didn't receive any emails from Microsoft

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nor any prior warnings.

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VeriCrypt is an open source tool for

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encrypting data at rest.

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Users can create encrypted partitions on

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their drives or make individual encrypted

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volumes to store their files in.

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Like its predecessor, TrueCrypt,

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which VeriCrypt is based on,

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it also lets users create a second

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innocuous looking volume if they are

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compelled to hand over their credentials.

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And I'd also like to add you can

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actually do full disk encryption with

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VeriCrypt.

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This is why this is quite a concerning

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move because

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uh if you lose access to your full

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disk encryption then obviously you're not

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going to be able to access your files

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so that is kind of a big concern

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here as well um and i guess moving

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on to the second thing here wireguard vpn

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developer also can't ship software updates

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after microsoft locks their account so if

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you didn't know already wireguard is a

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protocol that most vpn providers use to

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facilitate the VPN connections.

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And they also have an official WireGuard

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app that you can use with your WireGuard

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profiles.

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And this app on Windows is currently not

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being able to be updated because the

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WireGuard developer has also been locked

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out of their Microsoft developer account.

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So that means that they can't ship

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software updates to Windows users.

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Jason Donnefeld

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The creator of open source WireGuard VPN

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software told TechCrunch that he has been

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locked out of his Microsoft developer

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account and as a result cannot sign

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drivers or ship updates for WireGuard for

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Windows users,

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which are critical for its software to

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run.

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And I think probably the most concerning

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thing here is if there was a critical

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vulnerability found in WireGuard VPN on

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Windows,

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they wouldn't be able to ship an update

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and get it fixed.

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So this is kind of a concerning thing

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to be happening right now.

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But we did see that there was a

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sort of update to this story.

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So we did want to mention this immediately

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off the bat.

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Zach Whitaker from TechCrunch did a

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Mastodon post saying that he had contact

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from VeraCrypt and WireGuard,

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both telling them that they had regained

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access following their Microsoft account

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lockouts and can now release updates

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again.

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So that was on the eleventh of April.

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And a lot of these articles were coming

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out on the April the eighth.

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So it took a couple of days for

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this to happen.

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And I guess a lot of backlash, actually.

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So there's this article here from Bleeping

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Computer that also goes a little bit more

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into depth about how this worked.

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So according to the VeraCrypt developer,

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his account was actually terminated,

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which I basically need to have

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a Microsoft developer account to sign

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Windows drivers and the bootloader.

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I believe this is because the secure boot

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process, if the drivers aren't signed,

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and it won't be able to load properly

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or something like that.

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I've tried to contact Microsoft through

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various channels,

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but I've only received automated replies

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and bots.

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I was unable to reach a human.

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I cannot publish Windows updates.

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So I think this story kind of highlights

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the concern of trusting a centralized

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entity with the update process.

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So in this case,

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Microsoft does have quite a lot of control

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over which developers can actually

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create apps and updates on their platform,

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which, you know,

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we obviously oppose this because people

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should be able to run whatever software

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they want on their computer.

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They shouldn't be held hostage by a

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corporation.

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And I think in this case,

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it also ended up being a kind of

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security risk because they weren't able to

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release updates and they could have been a

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critical vulnerability found.

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But I do want to mention that WireGuard

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VPN is notoriously very stable.

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And the amount of updates that have been

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published for it have been quite minimal.

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And there haven't been that many critical

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vulnerabilities found.

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So that is a benefit.

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It's also because the WireGuard protocol

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is much leaner than other protocols like

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OpenVPN.

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So that does benefit it in that

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circumstance.

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In this article here from TechCrunch,

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Sorry,

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this article here from Bleeping Computer,

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it also stated that dev teams from

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Windscribe and memtest-eighty-six have

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also been locked out of their accounts

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too,

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so big issues for Windscribe and

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memtest-eighty-six.

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And it is kind of concerning that this

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happened without any warning,

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no notification,

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just these developers trying to access

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their accounts and they weren't able to.

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And like Jonah said here in the chat,

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he said,

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almost like having a triopoly on app

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stores isn't a good idea.

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Yeah,

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I think we should be trying to focus

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more on having more app stores,

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having alternative ways to install

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software.

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I think, yeah.

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I mean,

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one of the benefits with Windows is you

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don't have to use the app store to

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install apps.

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You can actually install them

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independently, which is a benefit.

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But it also,

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like we said in this story,

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there is a...

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element of control that Microsoft has

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because you need their permission to sign

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drivers and write to the bootloader.

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So if you don't have that developer

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account,

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then you're not going to be able to

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do that properly.

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In that case,

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your users would have to basically bypass

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that,

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which is a much more technical process.

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Although it is possible,

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it's not really recommended and a lot of

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users are probably going to feel unsafe

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about doing that.

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so i feel like i've talked for quite

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a while here um nate do you have

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any thoughts on this story so far oh

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man i mean i think you covered most

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of it for sure i think um yeah

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it's really uh it i'm glad you mentioned

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the um the full disk encryption nature of

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vericrypt i'm a vericrypt user myself i i

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will admit that and um it's

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VeriCrypt can be used either to encrypt

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specific things like you can create a

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container or you can encrypt like an

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external hard drive.

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Or like you said,

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you can encrypt your entire Windows

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computer,

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which my wife is primarily a Windows user.

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I kind of dual boot in between Windows

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and Linux for the most part.

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I really just use this Mac for this

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and that.

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when I travel and stuff.

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So that's kind of one of the first

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things we do is where I'm going with

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that is we encrypt our computers with

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VeriCrypt.

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And the developer,

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I forget which article he said it in.

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He may have said it in all of

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them.

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But the developer pointed out that if they

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hadn't gotten this fixed in time before

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the certificate ran out,

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which I think would have been early June

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or end of June, sometime in June,

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then that could have potentially meant the

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computers wouldn't boot.

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And on top of it,

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since he can't push out an update,

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how are you supposed to make sure that

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people know like, Hey,

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decrypt your computers because they might

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not boot.

00:09:06.376 --> 00:09:08.678
So it's really, it's really,

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really troubling for sure.

00:09:10.441 --> 00:09:10.581
The,

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The thing I like about the bleeping

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computer article is that it gives more of

00:09:16.913 --> 00:09:17.995
Microsoft's side of the story.

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And I don't like that necessarily because

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I care what Microsoft's opinion is,

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but just to have the full,

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complete information, right?

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And Microsoft claims that ever since,

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I think it was April of last year,

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they've had this program where developers

00:09:30.384 --> 00:09:31.285
have to verify,

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which we're seeing that now on the Android

00:09:36.009 --> 00:09:36.831
side of things, right?

00:09:37.010 --> 00:09:39.253
And Android, it's not...

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I don't wanna say it's not going well

00:09:41.629 --> 00:09:42.789
because it's not been rolled out yet,

00:09:42.830 --> 00:09:45.010
but this just shows things can go wrong,

00:09:45.171 --> 00:09:46.551
even well-meaning things.

00:09:46.711 --> 00:09:48.192
There are problems with this model.

00:09:48.831 --> 00:09:51.133
And so it's really confusing.

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Did these people just somehow miss the

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notifications?

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Was there some kind of glitch where they

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didn't get notified?

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Because the Microsoft,

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I think it was like a VP,

00:09:59.115 --> 00:10:00.557
was saying that they've been sending out

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emails,

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they've been sending out notifications.

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He said they've been emailing everyone

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since October,

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I think the guy from VeriCrypt said that

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he noticed this account was shut off in

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January.

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It's just,

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we're just now finding out about it for

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some reason.

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Not like he was hiding it.

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He was just,

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he was busy trying to figure it out.

00:10:16.807 --> 00:10:17.629
And for some reason,

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it's just now that he's coming forward and

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being like, hey,

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here's where I've been for the past couple

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of months.

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So, I mean, yeah, there's so many,

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Like, so many questions here, you know?

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Because there's... Again, there's like...

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Did something just get missed?

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I don't know.

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Why all of these?

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I have a hard time believing that like

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Windscribe, they have a whole team.

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How did a whole team miss this?

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And like, for the record,

00:10:42.153 --> 00:10:43.273
I'm not blaming Windscribe with that.

00:10:43.312 --> 00:10:44.293
I'm blaming Microsoft.

00:10:44.333 --> 00:10:44.514
Like,

00:10:45.234 --> 00:10:46.315
I don't think Microsoft did a good job

00:10:46.355 --> 00:10:49.037
of notifying everybody if they did at all.

00:10:49.096 --> 00:10:49.596
It's really weird.

00:10:49.677 --> 00:10:51.357
I don't like to assume malice.

00:10:51.418 --> 00:10:51.618
You know,

00:10:51.677 --> 00:10:52.499
I don't like to look at this and

00:10:52.519 --> 00:10:52.979
be like, oh,

00:10:53.019 --> 00:10:54.480
Microsoft's trying to crush open source.

00:10:55.019 --> 00:10:56.380
But I certainly have a lot of questions

00:10:56.400 --> 00:10:57.902
and I don't understand how so much fell

00:10:57.922 --> 00:10:59.342
through the cracks and so much got missed.

00:10:59.383 --> 00:10:59.462
And

00:11:00.383 --> 00:11:04.565
It really shouldn't take all this negative

00:11:04.605 --> 00:11:06.725
media coverage for Microsoft to be able to

00:11:06.745 --> 00:11:07.225
do something.

00:11:07.265 --> 00:11:09.647
That's a big concern that I've had for

00:11:09.706 --> 00:11:10.086
years,

00:11:10.126 --> 00:11:12.148
that I've noticed years and years and

00:11:12.187 --> 00:11:12.947
years ago that...

00:11:16.889 --> 00:11:18.048
It was with Facebook specifically.

00:11:18.068 --> 00:11:19.809
So I used to manage bands and one

00:11:19.830 --> 00:11:21.350
of the bands I managed wanted to change

00:11:21.370 --> 00:11:22.951
their name because there was another band

00:11:22.990 --> 00:11:24.772
with the same name that got super,

00:11:24.812 --> 00:11:25.471
super popular.

00:11:25.532 --> 00:11:25.912
So they're like,

00:11:25.932 --> 00:11:27.253
we need to rebrand because we keep getting

00:11:27.273 --> 00:11:27.832
confused with them.

00:11:28.572 --> 00:11:30.754
And like trying to get Facebook to rename

00:11:30.774 --> 00:11:33.394
this band was literally a multiple months

00:11:33.534 --> 00:11:34.375
long deal.

00:11:35.254 --> 00:11:35.634
And it's like,

00:11:35.695 --> 00:11:37.096
why can't I just talk to a person?

00:11:37.355 --> 00:11:38.515
Like it doesn't even have to be real

00:11:38.556 --> 00:11:38.677
time.

00:11:38.697 --> 00:11:40.116
I'm not asking to call somebody or chat

00:11:40.136 --> 00:11:40.537
with somebody.

00:11:40.797 --> 00:11:42.618
Why can't I email a human being?

00:11:43.958 --> 00:11:46.059
And it's just – everybody's trying to cut

00:11:46.100 --> 00:11:51.344
down on the cost of having a support

00:11:51.364 --> 00:11:52.625
staff, and they're trying to save money,

00:11:52.664 --> 00:11:55.287
and it's all about shareholders making

00:11:55.307 --> 00:11:56.006
more money and stuff.

00:11:56.027 --> 00:11:57.288
But it's just like this is the result

00:11:57.427 --> 00:12:01.791
is things don't get – like what if

00:12:01.811 --> 00:12:03.611
this had never taken off the way it

00:12:03.652 --> 00:12:04.032
had been?

00:12:04.653 --> 00:12:05.653
Like this would have been a really big

00:12:05.673 --> 00:12:05.913
deal.

00:12:05.953 --> 00:12:06.913
This would have been really bad.

00:12:07.014 --> 00:12:07.855
So –

00:12:08.259 --> 00:12:08.539
Sorry,

00:12:08.620 --> 00:12:09.760
I'm having trouble putting my thoughts in

00:12:09.801 --> 00:12:09.961
order.

00:12:09.980 --> 00:12:13.782
But yeah, this was so, so not cool.

00:12:14.942 --> 00:12:16.243
And I guess it makes me wonder.

00:12:17.283 --> 00:12:18.063
So, like, first of all,

00:12:19.365 --> 00:12:19.884
what do you think,

00:12:20.705 --> 00:12:21.566
if you have any opinions,

00:12:21.586 --> 00:12:22.905
what do you think developers could do

00:12:23.466 --> 00:12:24.047
against this?

00:12:24.067 --> 00:12:24.466
Because, I mean,

00:12:24.626 --> 00:12:26.368
it really does seem like Microsoft holds

00:12:26.388 --> 00:12:27.207
all the cards here.

00:12:27.988 --> 00:12:30.168
And I don't know.

00:12:30.269 --> 00:12:30.629
Like, it's...

00:12:32.892 --> 00:12:35.273
because these are privileged software,

00:12:35.293 --> 00:12:35.453
right?

00:12:35.494 --> 00:12:36.374
I think that's the difference.

00:12:36.833 --> 00:12:38.375
We were talking about this in another chat

00:12:38.414 --> 00:12:39.096
earlier today,

00:12:39.816 --> 00:12:42.077
is like when I install things on Windows

00:12:42.097 --> 00:12:43.518
that don't come from the Microsoft Store,

00:12:43.597 --> 00:12:44.499
even when they're unsigned,

00:12:44.778 --> 00:12:45.960
there's a little pop-up that's like, hey,

00:12:45.980 --> 00:12:46.779
this is unsigned.

00:12:46.879 --> 00:12:47.780
And I can tell it like, yeah,

00:12:47.821 --> 00:12:49.001
I know, install it anyways.

00:12:49.721 --> 00:12:51.363
But for these like really high level,

00:12:51.462 --> 00:12:53.063
very privileged things, it's like,

00:12:55.184 --> 00:12:55.946
I don't even know if there's a way

00:12:55.966 --> 00:12:56.446
around that.

00:12:56.485 --> 00:12:58.648
So I mean, yes, in a perfect world,

00:12:58.668 --> 00:12:59.567
switch to Linux, right?

00:12:59.587 --> 00:13:00.649
But I don't know if there's any other

00:13:00.688 --> 00:13:01.389
alternatives there.

00:13:01.568 --> 00:13:02.529
Do you have any thoughts on that?

00:13:04.533 --> 00:13:06.053
Yeah, I think, you know,

00:13:06.073 --> 00:13:07.855
when there's a gatekeeper and that

00:13:07.914 --> 00:13:09.414
gatekeeper is Microsoft,

00:13:09.715 --> 00:13:11.515
there is like not a whole lot we

00:13:11.556 --> 00:13:13.596
can do in this case, unfortunately,

00:13:13.616 --> 00:13:14.356
which kind of sucks.

00:13:14.376 --> 00:13:14.917
Like you said,

00:13:14.996 --> 00:13:18.177
like switching to operating systems that

00:13:18.217 --> 00:13:20.477
respect you and don't hold your computer

00:13:20.538 --> 00:13:23.739
hostage and do this sort of silliness is,

00:13:24.078 --> 00:13:24.279
I mean,

00:13:24.299 --> 00:13:26.139
I'm sure there is a security benefit from

00:13:26.179 --> 00:13:28.280
doing this, but I think, you know,

00:13:28.301 --> 00:13:29.520
we have to look at things from like

00:13:31.095 --> 00:13:32.576
different angles as well, right?

00:13:32.596 --> 00:13:35.717
Like what does this power that Microsoft

00:13:35.778 --> 00:13:37.739
holds, what can it be used for?

00:13:38.239 --> 00:13:40.921
And if they can lock people out of

00:13:40.941 --> 00:13:44.222
their accounts accidentally, accidentally,

00:13:44.302 --> 00:13:45.524
I'm saying in quotations,

00:13:45.543 --> 00:13:48.306
very large quotations, but, you know,

00:13:50.366 --> 00:13:51.847
then what could they do if, you know,

00:13:51.868 --> 00:13:53.528
there was a foreign government that didn't

00:13:53.568 --> 00:13:54.489
really like, oh,

00:13:54.528 --> 00:13:57.071
we don't like that you're allowing people

00:13:57.091 --> 00:13:59.172
to use WireGuard VPN to bypass our

00:13:59.211 --> 00:14:00.033
firewall or,

00:14:01.277 --> 00:14:02.238
something like that, right?

00:14:03.818 --> 00:14:06.422
I think people should be able to use

00:14:06.442 --> 00:14:08.023
their computer in whatever way they want,

00:14:08.082 --> 00:14:08.303
right?

00:14:08.344 --> 00:14:11.446
We shouldn't be, we shouldn't be,

00:14:11.567 --> 00:14:11.826
you know,

00:14:11.866 --> 00:14:14.990
bowing to Microsoft's wins on what we do

00:14:15.029 --> 00:14:15.789
on our computers.

00:14:15.850 --> 00:14:18.832
So ideally people are using Linux here.

00:14:19.494 --> 00:14:19.693
I mean,

00:14:19.734 --> 00:14:23.177
there's definitely the ability to use

00:14:23.236 --> 00:14:26.100
different repositories is great.

00:14:26.821 --> 00:14:27.100
I think

00:14:28.785 --> 00:14:30.027
it's kind of unfortunate though,

00:14:30.067 --> 00:14:32.827
whoever controls the platform kind of gets

00:14:32.868 --> 00:14:33.889
to decide these things.

00:14:33.928 --> 00:14:34.849
And as far as I'm aware,

00:14:34.908 --> 00:14:37.431
there's Linux is basically the only system

00:14:37.471 --> 00:14:39.831
where there isn't a big tech corporation

00:14:39.871 --> 00:14:42.394
with ultimate control over everything

00:14:42.474 --> 00:14:45.215
because Android,

00:14:45.676 --> 00:14:48.616
like we've kind of seen Google owns the

00:14:48.657 --> 00:14:49.677
Android source code.

00:14:49.717 --> 00:14:52.119
So a lot of times they can exert

00:14:52.278 --> 00:14:57.001
things onto the operating system that, uh,

00:15:00.198 --> 00:15:01.480
against the user's interests,

00:15:01.519 --> 00:15:02.100
for instance.

00:15:02.159 --> 00:15:04.020
Like we've seen where they're stopping

00:15:04.061 --> 00:15:07.163
people from installing apps on their

00:15:07.182 --> 00:15:08.504
devices and stuff like that.

00:15:09.563 --> 00:15:11.125
We're still kind of monitoring that

00:15:11.184 --> 00:15:12.206
situation as well.

00:15:12.745 --> 00:15:15.788
But I think when we operate on platforms

00:15:15.807 --> 00:15:18.649
that are not controlled by the community,

00:15:18.669 --> 00:15:20.390
then that's when we run into issues like

00:15:20.410 --> 00:15:20.691
this.

00:15:20.951 --> 00:15:24.312
So yeah, I mean,

00:15:24.373 --> 00:15:25.913
I don't really have too much more to

00:15:25.994 --> 00:15:27.534
add unless you have something.

00:15:28.890 --> 00:15:29.511
No, yeah,

00:15:29.631 --> 00:15:30.993
I guess just the last thing I wanted

00:15:32.394 --> 00:15:33.414
to mention is,

00:15:33.696 --> 00:15:34.897
do you happen to know off the top

00:15:34.917 --> 00:15:37.038
of your head what PrivacyGuide's official

00:15:37.298 --> 00:15:42.943
encryption software recommendations are?

00:15:43.043 --> 00:15:43.985
Off the top of my head,

00:15:44.024 --> 00:15:46.067
we do recommend VeriCrypt, I believe.

00:15:48.038 --> 00:15:48.957
Yeah.

00:15:49.057 --> 00:15:49.298
Okay.

00:15:50.599 --> 00:15:51.678
Yeah, I've got it pulled up here.

00:15:51.719 --> 00:15:52.899
Let's see.

00:15:53.379 --> 00:15:54.559
Can I share?

00:15:54.659 --> 00:15:55.659
Yes, sharing this tab.

00:15:55.799 --> 00:15:56.039
Okay.

00:15:56.519 --> 00:15:58.280
So it looks like we do recommend...

00:15:59.160 --> 00:16:00.900
If you're trying to upload to the cloud,

00:16:00.941 --> 00:16:02.302
we do recommend Cryptomator.

00:16:02.682 --> 00:16:04.062
We do recommend VeriCrypt.

00:16:05.861 --> 00:16:06.743
It does say that...

00:16:08.182 --> 00:16:12.544
for disk encryption um interesting i did

00:16:12.585 --> 00:16:13.804
not know we recommended that for full disk

00:16:13.845 --> 00:16:15.905
encryption but yeah the like i said it

00:16:15.926 --> 00:16:17.605
can also be used for standalone for to

00:16:17.706 --> 00:16:19.886
encrypt like an external disk but oh there

00:16:19.907 --> 00:16:21.508
it is operating system encryption yeah we

00:16:21.548 --> 00:16:23.028
typically recommend whatever it comes

00:16:23.067 --> 00:16:24.869
built in with so like linux distros will

00:16:24.889 --> 00:16:26.408
come with lux which is the linux unified

00:16:26.448 --> 00:16:28.409
key setup um the only thing that kind

00:16:28.429 --> 00:16:29.510
of sucks is i'm told that it can

00:16:29.650 --> 00:16:30.230
only happen

00:16:31.347 --> 00:16:33.549
At the start, like when you install Linux,

00:16:34.090 --> 00:16:35.250
I don't think you can go in and

00:16:35.331 --> 00:16:36.312
add it afterwards,

00:16:36.351 --> 00:16:37.352
at least not very easily.

00:16:37.373 --> 00:16:38.052
It's kind of clunky.

00:16:38.833 --> 00:16:41.456
Macs come with FileVault and Windows.

00:16:42.397 --> 00:16:44.097
So Windows has BitLocker.

00:16:45.178 --> 00:16:46.600
It's kind of tricky to use because

00:16:46.639 --> 00:16:48.761
originally it was only in like the upper

00:16:48.802 --> 00:16:49.381
level versions,

00:16:49.422 --> 00:16:50.763
like the Pro and the Enterprise,

00:16:51.182 --> 00:16:52.625
which typically cost a lot of money.

00:16:53.105 --> 00:16:55.106
The home version now has it if you

00:16:55.486 --> 00:16:55.787
use a...

00:16:57.148 --> 00:16:58.229
if you use an online account,

00:16:58.269 --> 00:16:59.791
which we definitely do not recommend for a

00:16:59.811 --> 00:17:00.671
variety of reasons.

00:17:01.432 --> 00:17:03.214
And, uh, yeah, but there's,

00:17:03.293 --> 00:17:04.694
there's ways to, you know,

00:17:04.734 --> 00:17:06.396
you can upgrade to pro, which, uh,

00:17:06.416 --> 00:17:08.618
you can usually find, um,

00:17:09.859 --> 00:17:11.161
make sure they're the reputable,

00:17:11.260 --> 00:17:12.923
but you can usually find resellers online

00:17:12.942 --> 00:17:14.663
who will sell them a pro license for

00:17:14.683 --> 00:17:15.924
a lot cheaper and stuff like that.

00:17:15.984 --> 00:17:17.987
So BitLocker, I will be honest,

00:17:18.047 --> 00:17:19.228
me personally, um,

00:17:20.204 --> 00:17:21.826
I'm not too crazy about BitLocker because

00:17:21.865 --> 00:17:23.205
I've seen a lot of vulnerabilities in the

00:17:23.226 --> 00:17:27.008
past where there's a vulnerability found

00:17:27.028 --> 00:17:28.489
in full disk encryption and BitLocker is

00:17:28.528 --> 00:17:30.049
vulnerable to it, but VeriCrypt is not.

00:17:30.170 --> 00:17:32.851
Or I've also seen stories about there's a

00:17:32.891 --> 00:17:35.511
bug and now BitLocker won't decrypt and

00:17:35.531 --> 00:17:36.853
you can't boot your operating system.

00:17:36.873 --> 00:17:37.893
You have to recover it.

00:17:37.913 --> 00:17:39.653
So always make sure you save the recovery

00:17:39.693 --> 00:17:40.855
methods because that's really important.

00:17:41.335 --> 00:17:42.035
But at the same time,

00:17:43.415 --> 00:17:45.257
I guess to make devil's advocate argument,

00:17:45.717 --> 00:17:46.897
We know that BitLocker is secure.

00:17:46.958 --> 00:17:48.157
We did cover a story about this a

00:17:48.198 --> 00:17:50.259
while back where law enforcement requested

00:17:50.278 --> 00:17:53.000
some BitLocker keys from Microsoft,

00:17:53.421 --> 00:17:54.721
and Microsoft only had them because the

00:17:54.740 --> 00:17:55.882
whole online account thing,

00:17:56.541 --> 00:17:57.883
they were not able to get it just

00:17:58.823 --> 00:18:00.663
the – what's the word I'm looking for?

00:18:01.597 --> 00:18:02.958
They were not able to get it just

00:18:02.998 --> 00:18:03.597
from the device.

00:18:03.638 --> 00:18:04.259
As far as we know,

00:18:04.298 --> 00:18:07.459
BitLocker has not been broken by law

00:18:07.558 --> 00:18:08.400
enforcement or anything.

00:18:08.460 --> 00:18:09.140
But also,

00:18:10.240 --> 00:18:11.500
we would have been in the same situation

00:18:11.519 --> 00:18:13.020
about not being able to boot had this

00:18:13.060 --> 00:18:14.421
VeriCrypt thing not happened, right?

00:18:14.601 --> 00:18:17.041
And there's also plenty of Windows

00:18:17.082 --> 00:18:18.541
softwares that break Windows even without

00:18:18.561 --> 00:18:19.321
the encryption enabled.

00:18:19.382 --> 00:18:20.262
So I guess my point is,

00:18:20.542 --> 00:18:21.522
I think there's pros and cons,

00:18:21.542 --> 00:18:23.403
but BitLocker does have a lot going for

00:18:23.462 --> 00:18:24.564
it.

00:18:24.604 --> 00:18:25.544
Just something to be aware of.

00:18:25.564 --> 00:18:25.963
Yeah.

00:18:27.320 --> 00:18:28.221
Yeah,

00:18:28.301 --> 00:18:30.143
I guess that's all I got on that

00:18:30.202 --> 00:18:30.282
one.

00:18:30.383 --> 00:18:30.762
Also, yeah,

00:18:30.782 --> 00:18:32.003
just a reminder to get off Windows if

00:18:32.044 --> 00:18:32.644
possible.

00:18:32.683 --> 00:18:33.345
Even if you dual boot,

00:18:33.404 --> 00:18:35.266
I mentioned I have Windows and Linux.

00:18:35.665 --> 00:18:38.087
I don't fully run Windows all the time.

00:18:38.988 --> 00:18:40.249
I try to use Linux whenever I can,

00:18:40.269 --> 00:18:41.490
and then I use Windows for the more

00:18:43.790 --> 00:18:44.892
CPU-intensive stuff,

00:18:44.912 --> 00:18:46.353
like video editing and stuff like that,

00:18:46.393 --> 00:18:47.913
that my Linux machine just can't really

00:18:47.933 --> 00:18:48.253
handle.

00:18:48.433 --> 00:18:52.297
I think that is all I've got.

00:18:55.656 --> 00:18:57.157
All right.

00:18:57.317 --> 00:18:59.298
And I think if that's all we've got

00:18:59.338 --> 00:19:00.079
on that story,

00:19:00.660 --> 00:19:03.821
we are going to talk next about a

00:19:04.781 --> 00:19:05.303
wage.

00:19:05.623 --> 00:19:05.962
What is it?

00:19:05.982 --> 00:19:07.124
Surveillance wages.

00:19:07.523 --> 00:19:08.223
Cause you know,

00:19:08.304 --> 00:19:10.425
just when you think privacy can't get any

00:19:10.625 --> 00:19:11.066
worse.

00:19:11.746 --> 00:19:14.048
So this comes from market watch and it

00:19:14.067 --> 00:19:15.388
says employers are using your personal

00:19:15.409 --> 00:19:17.410
data to figure out the lowest salary that

00:19:17.430 --> 00:19:18.029
you'll accept.

00:19:18.851 --> 00:19:19.351
And yeah,

00:19:20.597 --> 00:19:21.558
Man, I mean, honestly,

00:19:21.659 --> 00:19:22.558
this article really,

00:19:22.598 --> 00:19:23.660
the headline kind of says it all.

00:19:23.720 --> 00:19:25.661
So there's been a lot of talk lately

00:19:25.701 --> 00:19:26.922
about surveillance pricing,

00:19:28.082 --> 00:19:29.022
which is where

00:19:30.693 --> 00:19:31.414
And as far as we know,

00:19:31.454 --> 00:19:33.016
this is happening more online than in

00:19:33.256 --> 00:19:33.656
person.

00:19:34.696 --> 00:19:36.419
But companies will use the data about you

00:19:36.439 --> 00:19:37.419
to try and figure out like, oh,

00:19:37.460 --> 00:19:38.539
maybe you'll pay a little bit extra.

00:19:39.401 --> 00:19:41.102
You'll pay a little extra for this plane

00:19:41.122 --> 00:19:41.362
ticket.

00:19:41.382 --> 00:19:42.482
You'll pay a little extra for this.

00:19:43.084 --> 00:19:44.003
I think there was a story a while

00:19:44.023 --> 00:19:46.967
back that found out that if you were

00:19:47.027 --> 00:19:48.688
in the parking lot of a Target and

00:19:48.708 --> 00:19:50.209
you open the app on your store or

00:19:50.249 --> 00:19:50.890
open the website,

00:19:51.609 --> 00:19:53.112
They would actually try to charge you more

00:19:53.192 --> 00:19:54.614
because they figured that you probably

00:19:54.713 --> 00:19:56.036
weren't going to go to another store,

00:19:57.136 --> 00:19:57.917
which I don't know who's going to sit

00:19:57.938 --> 00:19:58.939
in the parking lot and then order

00:19:58.959 --> 00:19:59.239
something.

00:19:59.259 --> 00:19:59.819
That's kind of weird.

00:19:59.900 --> 00:20:03.144
But there's also been a lot of allegations

00:20:03.183 --> 00:20:04.065
about – well,

00:20:04.105 --> 00:20:06.737
I mean actually –

00:20:05.717 --> 00:20:06.778
No, because that's this data.

00:20:07.397 --> 00:20:08.578
There's been allegations like Uber,

00:20:08.618 --> 00:20:09.118
for example,

00:20:09.219 --> 00:20:10.680
if they can tell your battery is low,

00:20:10.700 --> 00:20:11.980
that they'll charge you more because they

00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:13.101
know that you can't afford to wait for

00:20:13.141 --> 00:20:13.842
the price to go down.

00:20:14.382 --> 00:20:15.803
I don't think that was proven,

00:20:16.702 --> 00:20:17.864
but that's definitely an allegation and I

00:20:17.884 --> 00:20:18.964
wouldn't put it past them personally.

00:20:19.025 --> 00:20:20.885
So yeah,

00:20:20.925 --> 00:20:23.126
now the new thing is using your personal

00:20:23.166 --> 00:20:24.948
data to figure out how much to pay

00:20:24.968 --> 00:20:25.147
you,

00:20:25.468 --> 00:20:27.589
which in the past has historically been

00:20:27.630 --> 00:20:29.490
based on things like how long you've been

00:20:29.510 --> 00:20:30.131
in this industry,

00:20:30.191 --> 00:20:31.372
how long you've been at this job,

00:20:31.432 --> 00:20:33.073
what the actual job title you're applying

00:20:33.093 --> 00:20:34.834
for is, certifications, things like that.

00:20:36.634 --> 00:20:37.776
which I'm sure will probably still play a

00:20:37.836 --> 00:20:38.135
role.

00:20:38.217 --> 00:20:39.217
But of course,

00:20:39.376 --> 00:20:40.979
now they've got to factor in things like,

00:20:40.999 --> 00:20:41.638
where did it go?

00:20:42.099 --> 00:20:43.361
Things like if you've taken out a payday

00:20:43.401 --> 00:20:43.580
loan,

00:20:43.621 --> 00:20:45.201
if you have a high credit card balance,

00:20:46.262 --> 00:20:48.065
I just made a big move and I'm

00:20:48.125 --> 00:20:48.625
not going to lie.

00:20:48.664 --> 00:20:50.506
We moved from a very high cost of

00:20:50.527 --> 00:20:51.827
living area to a lower cost of living

00:20:51.907 --> 00:20:52.127
area.

00:20:52.887 --> 00:20:54.529
We didn't have savings because the cost of

00:20:54.569 --> 00:20:55.410
living was so high.

00:20:56.010 --> 00:20:58.012
So I've got a pretty high credit card

00:20:58.032 --> 00:20:59.634
balance right now because we use that to

00:20:59.653 --> 00:21:00.494
fund a lot of the move.

00:21:01.375 --> 00:21:02.496
Um, so things like that,

00:21:03.155 --> 00:21:05.116
I think further down, they did talk about,

00:21:06.218 --> 00:21:06.798
we've actually,

00:21:07.117 --> 00:21:09.058
I really feel the need to point out,

00:21:09.098 --> 00:21:11.279
this is not hypothetical because I've been

00:21:11.319 --> 00:21:12.840
hearing for a long time now that this

00:21:12.861 --> 00:21:14.602
is how it works with gig, gig work.

00:21:14.761 --> 00:21:17.042
And, you know, things like, um,

00:21:17.083 --> 00:21:17.703
like DoorDash,

00:21:18.023 --> 00:21:22.465
there are certain people who start out

00:21:22.526 --> 00:21:24.707
making more, like if, if, okay,

00:21:24.767 --> 00:21:25.587
if I put it in an order to

00:21:25.627 --> 00:21:26.048
DoorDash,

00:21:27.272 --> 00:21:29.192
And it goes to two different people,

00:21:29.413 --> 00:21:30.334
two different dashers.

00:21:31.114 --> 00:21:32.993
One of them will see a higher price

00:21:33.013 --> 00:21:34.595
than the other one based on things like

00:21:34.634 --> 00:21:38.036
how picky they are with their – do

00:21:38.056 --> 00:21:39.336
they just accept every single one that

00:21:39.375 --> 00:21:40.476
comes along or do they wait for the

00:21:40.496 --> 00:21:40.915
better ones?

00:21:40.976 --> 00:21:44.017
And the ones that typically pay more will

00:21:44.116 --> 00:21:46.917
usually go to those people first, right?

00:21:46.958 --> 00:21:49.498
Which is so predatory.

00:21:49.798 --> 00:21:50.959
It's so – I feel like I'm getting

00:21:50.999 --> 00:21:51.519
ahead of myself,

00:21:51.538 --> 00:21:52.358
but like –

00:21:53.717 --> 00:21:53.998
I don't know.

00:21:54.018 --> 00:21:54.198
Yeah.

00:21:54.238 --> 00:21:55.098
Like, okay,

00:21:55.160 --> 00:21:56.642
we'll just jump into that part because I

00:21:56.662 --> 00:21:57.723
mean, again, this is the story.

00:21:57.903 --> 00:21:58.565
Well, okay, hold on.

00:21:58.585 --> 00:21:59.366
There is one more thing I want to

00:21:59.386 --> 00:22:00.729
point out before I jump into the analysis

00:22:00.769 --> 00:22:02.152
portion, which is they say that, um,

00:22:03.476 --> 00:22:05.178
The vendors that provide tools that make

00:22:05.198 --> 00:22:08.339
this possible, oh, no,

00:22:08.540 --> 00:22:10.241
it's a little bit further up.

00:22:12.284 --> 00:22:12.523
Yeah,

00:22:12.964 --> 00:22:14.185
a first of its kind audit of five

00:22:14.205 --> 00:22:15.527
hundred labor management artificial

00:22:15.547 --> 00:22:18.369
intelligence companies found that

00:22:18.390 --> 00:22:20.230
employers in healthcare, customer service,

00:22:20.270 --> 00:22:20.751
logistics,

00:22:20.832 --> 00:22:23.074
and retail are customers of vendors whose

00:22:23.114 --> 00:22:24.414
tools are designed to enable this

00:22:24.434 --> 00:22:24.875
practice.

00:22:25.596 --> 00:22:26.737
The report does not claim that all

00:22:26.777 --> 00:22:28.738
employers using these systems engage in

00:22:29.258 --> 00:22:29.978
wage surveillance.

00:22:30.077 --> 00:22:30.337
Instead,

00:22:30.357 --> 00:22:31.499
it warns that the growing use of

00:22:31.519 --> 00:22:33.138
algorithmic tools to analyze workers'

00:22:33.179 --> 00:22:35.520
personal data can enable pay practices.

00:22:35.540 --> 00:22:37.842
And I skipped over it earlier,

00:22:37.862 --> 00:22:38.682
but when they talk about, like,

00:22:38.721 --> 00:22:39.801
high credit card balance and stuff,

00:22:40.063 --> 00:22:41.502
they can also scrape your social media to

00:22:41.542 --> 00:22:42.564
see if you are more likely to join

00:22:42.584 --> 00:22:43.943
a union or could become pregnant.

00:22:44.523 --> 00:22:44.684
And...

00:22:45.992 --> 00:22:46.814
I guess the last thing I'll say is

00:22:46.834 --> 00:22:47.554
I love down here.

00:22:47.614 --> 00:22:49.756
They were talking about how there are laws

00:22:49.816 --> 00:22:51.656
now that are trying to outlaw surveillance

00:22:51.696 --> 00:22:52.076
pricing,

00:22:52.156 --> 00:22:53.117
but a lot of them have not caught

00:22:53.137 --> 00:22:55.019
up to wage surveillance wages,

00:22:55.799 --> 00:22:56.780
except for one,

00:22:56.901 --> 00:22:59.282
which is Colorado is trying to pass the

00:22:59.323 --> 00:23:01.064
prohibit surveillance data to set prices

00:23:01.084 --> 00:23:01.703
and wages act,

00:23:02.003 --> 00:23:03.085
which would ban companies from using

00:23:03.164 --> 00:23:04.145
intimate personal data.

00:23:05.267 --> 00:23:08.108
Um, it carves out performance-based wages,

00:23:08.828 --> 00:23:08.909
uh,

00:23:08.929 --> 00:23:11.510
which I mean on the surface sounds fine.

00:23:12.311 --> 00:23:13.051
Uh, I like that.

00:23:13.132 --> 00:23:13.813
He says, uh,

00:23:15.030 --> 00:23:15.351
Here it is.

00:23:15.990 --> 00:23:17.031
The bill would prohibit companies from

00:23:17.112 --> 00:23:18.672
using workers' personal data without their

00:23:18.711 --> 00:23:20.292
consent to determine what they're paid.

00:23:21.272 --> 00:23:22.094
So, I mean,

00:23:24.615 --> 00:23:25.694
I read that without their consent.

00:23:25.734 --> 00:23:26.355
I'm like, yeah, of course,

00:23:26.375 --> 00:23:27.615
that's going to be buried on page fifty

00:23:27.635 --> 00:23:28.516
of the contract, right?

00:23:28.536 --> 00:23:29.217
That's ridiculous.

00:23:29.297 --> 00:23:32.657
So, yeah, I don't know.

00:23:32.718 --> 00:23:32.958
Anyway,

00:23:33.278 --> 00:23:34.818
so getting back to the analysis portion of

00:23:34.838 --> 00:23:36.500
this, this is really frustrating.

00:23:39.580 --> 00:23:40.540
I had the privilege of interviewing

00:23:40.601 --> 00:23:41.922
someone recently that we'll talk about a

00:23:41.942 --> 00:23:42.541
little bit more later.

00:23:43.597 --> 00:23:46.415
coming up here, but she spoke about how

00:23:47.498 --> 00:23:49.378
a lot of this surveillance used to like

00:23:49.439 --> 00:23:51.838
set prices and set wages like this,

00:23:52.680 --> 00:23:54.180
it becomes deterministic, right?

00:23:54.740 --> 00:23:56.621
Because here's what I can see happening is

00:23:57.500 --> 00:23:58.541
you go up to your boss and you

00:23:58.561 --> 00:23:59.781
say, I think I deserve more.

00:24:00.201 --> 00:24:00.942
And your boss says,

00:24:01.522 --> 00:24:02.863
or even negotiating a new job, right?

00:24:02.883 --> 00:24:03.923
Because I've done that where I go to,

00:24:04.544 --> 00:24:05.564
I get a job and they say,

00:24:05.604 --> 00:24:06.324
we'll pay you this much.

00:24:06.364 --> 00:24:07.644
And I say, I think I deserve more.

00:24:07.765 --> 00:24:08.845
And I've successfully done that.

00:24:09.444 --> 00:24:10.965
And what happens when they come back and

00:24:11.006 --> 00:24:12.465
say, well, we can't.

00:24:12.686 --> 00:24:14.047
Like I do that every,

00:24:14.207 --> 00:24:15.048
you guys may or may not know this.

00:24:15.268 --> 00:24:15.808
If you rent,

00:24:16.430 --> 00:24:17.892
sometimes you can negotiate your rent.

00:24:18.092 --> 00:24:18.712
Like I've done that.

00:24:18.732 --> 00:24:20.134
I've gone to the leasing office and been

00:24:20.154 --> 00:24:22.577
like, I don't want to pay more.

00:24:22.617 --> 00:24:22.758
Like,

00:24:22.798 --> 00:24:23.798
let's see if we can find to an

00:24:23.818 --> 00:24:25.401
agreement and they'll walk it down a

00:24:25.421 --> 00:24:25.741
little bit.

00:24:25.761 --> 00:24:27.103
And then I've been to other places where

00:24:27.123 --> 00:24:27.743
they're like, no,

00:24:27.804 --> 00:24:28.505
that's out of our control.

00:24:28.545 --> 00:24:29.226
We can't do anything.

00:24:29.626 --> 00:24:31.127
And my fear is as this continues to

00:24:31.148 --> 00:24:31.388
grow,

00:24:31.429 --> 00:24:32.509
we're going to see more of that

00:24:33.211 --> 00:24:34.571
That second thing where people are like,

00:24:34.612 --> 00:24:35.491
no, we can't do anything.

00:24:35.612 --> 00:24:35.932
It's just,

00:24:36.031 --> 00:24:37.752
it's set what it is because that's what

00:24:37.772 --> 00:24:38.532
the algorithm says.

00:24:38.553 --> 00:24:39.012
And I can't,

00:24:39.513 --> 00:24:41.193
I don't have the authority to push back

00:24:41.233 --> 00:24:41.775
on the algorithm,

00:24:41.795 --> 00:24:43.154
which is demeaning to your employees.

00:24:43.914 --> 00:24:45.875
But it's also deterministic.

00:24:45.915 --> 00:24:47.436
And it sets us in this like,

00:24:49.069 --> 00:24:49.470
this like,

00:24:50.050 --> 00:24:51.371
almost like a lack of free will.

00:24:51.951 --> 00:24:52.672
I just don't want to use the word

00:24:52.692 --> 00:24:53.913
deterministic again.

00:24:53.932 --> 00:24:55.773
But it sets us in this environment where

00:24:56.054 --> 00:24:58.316
we have no freedom, really.

00:24:58.355 --> 00:25:00.277
We have no growth because now it doesn't

00:25:00.317 --> 00:25:01.377
matter how hard you work.

00:25:01.417 --> 00:25:03.138
It doesn't matter, you know,

00:25:03.219 --> 00:25:04.118
how good you do.

00:25:04.279 --> 00:25:06.681
It's, you'll forever hit a cap, right?

00:25:06.760 --> 00:25:07.842
And sure, those things will matter.

00:25:07.882 --> 00:25:08.721
Those things will help.

00:25:09.103 --> 00:25:09.482
But, you know,

00:25:09.583 --> 00:25:11.544
if you've got the high credit card debt,

00:25:11.584 --> 00:25:14.465
if you've got pro-union views on social

00:25:14.506 --> 00:25:14.826
media,

00:25:15.105 --> 00:25:16.846
now you can either choose to not talk

00:25:16.866 --> 00:25:17.327
about that

00:25:17.827 --> 00:25:19.608
Or you can choose to just like forever

00:25:19.868 --> 00:25:21.589
not reach your full earning potential,

00:25:21.910 --> 00:25:23.151
which then keeps you trapped in this

00:25:23.191 --> 00:25:23.530
cycle.

00:25:23.631 --> 00:25:25.452
And it's just, oh my God,

00:25:25.472 --> 00:25:26.512
this is so predatory.

00:25:26.712 --> 00:25:28.614
And yeah, I don't know.

00:25:28.934 --> 00:25:30.494
I feel like I kind of rambled a

00:25:30.535 --> 00:25:31.276
little bit on that one,

00:25:31.296 --> 00:25:34.137
but hopefully I kind of said something

00:25:34.298 --> 00:25:34.758
coherent.

00:25:37.333 --> 00:25:37.593
Yeah.

00:25:37.834 --> 00:25:38.034
I mean,

00:25:38.114 --> 00:25:39.836
I think one important thing to add to

00:25:39.855 --> 00:25:43.578
this is we already see like when it

00:25:43.618 --> 00:25:46.102
comes to employment and like how much

00:25:46.122 --> 00:25:46.821
people are paid,

00:25:46.882 --> 00:25:48.963
like this is already an issue without like

00:25:49.023 --> 00:25:50.266
the surveillance stuff, right?

00:25:50.306 --> 00:25:50.526
Like,

00:25:52.212 --> 00:25:53.453
we have studies that are done where,

00:25:53.473 --> 00:25:53.773
you know,

00:25:53.973 --> 00:25:55.776
there's people that apply with the same

00:25:55.816 --> 00:25:56.276
resume,

00:25:56.296 --> 00:25:58.017
but they change the name from a female

00:25:58.057 --> 00:25:59.137
name to a male name.

00:25:59.278 --> 00:26:02.140
And then the person they get employed more

00:26:02.220 --> 00:26:03.060
under the male name,

00:26:03.080 --> 00:26:05.362
then they get more interviews under the

00:26:05.402 --> 00:26:06.502
male name than the female name.

00:26:07.002 --> 00:26:09.144
I think this is just like increasing the

00:26:09.184 --> 00:26:10.786
level of discrimination.

00:26:10.826 --> 00:26:12.646
People are going to be finding themselves

00:26:12.707 --> 00:26:13.067
in right.

00:26:13.087 --> 00:26:15.449
Like, Oh, your name appears like this.

00:26:15.568 --> 00:26:17.451
And we already kind of know that these

00:26:17.570 --> 00:26:20.492
AI systems are incredibly biased against,

00:26:21.554 --> 00:26:21.653
um,

00:26:22.980 --> 00:26:24.041
people of color, you know, uh,

00:26:25.022 --> 00:26:26.825
marginalized groups that are less

00:26:26.884 --> 00:26:27.465
represented.

00:26:27.506 --> 00:26:29.387
They're, they're not as that,

00:26:29.407 --> 00:26:33.011
that these systems are trained on data

00:26:33.031 --> 00:26:36.035
that doesn't have them as the majority.

00:26:36.095 --> 00:26:36.335
Right.

00:26:36.355 --> 00:26:39.459
So it's going to kind of deprioritize

00:26:39.499 --> 00:26:40.519
their, uh,

00:26:42.082 --> 00:26:44.344
their skills and their experience, right?

00:26:44.364 --> 00:26:47.247
So I think this is sort of an

00:26:47.287 --> 00:26:50.289
additional layer to that discrimination.

00:26:50.430 --> 00:26:51.971
I think someone said here,

00:26:51.991 --> 00:26:53.093
Plants McGee said,

00:26:53.633 --> 00:26:55.615
giggles in European where this is illegal.

00:26:55.714 --> 00:26:55.855
Yeah,

00:26:55.894 --> 00:26:57.676
this is illegal in a lot of the

00:26:57.717 --> 00:26:58.438
world, actually.

00:26:58.538 --> 00:26:59.878
I'm kind of surprised that this isn't

00:26:59.898 --> 00:27:01.361
illegal in the US,

00:27:01.401 --> 00:27:03.583
but I guess that is the state of

00:27:03.603 --> 00:27:03.942
things.

00:27:05.474 --> 00:27:05.894
You know what, though?

00:27:06.835 --> 00:27:07.655
I don't mean to cut you off,

00:27:07.675 --> 00:27:08.796
but I'm glad you mentioned that because I

00:27:08.816 --> 00:27:09.615
did want to mention that.

00:27:10.497 --> 00:27:12.297
I don't want to get after anybody here,

00:27:12.957 --> 00:27:13.917
but I just want to point out,

00:27:15.117 --> 00:27:16.057
in my personal opinion,

00:27:16.218 --> 00:27:17.519
I think that's a dangerous attitude to

00:27:17.558 --> 00:27:17.858
have.

00:27:17.878 --> 00:27:18.798
We're like, haha,

00:27:18.878 --> 00:27:19.818
that wouldn't happen here.

00:27:21.180 --> 00:27:22.880
Just, what was it, late last year,

00:27:22.960 --> 00:27:23.621
early this year?

00:27:24.401 --> 00:27:26.461
The EU is talking about rolling back parts

00:27:26.481 --> 00:27:28.602
of GDPR to be more competitive on the

00:27:28.721 --> 00:27:29.422
AI industry.

00:27:30.202 --> 00:27:30.643
So like,

00:27:31.468 --> 00:27:31.768
Yes.

00:27:31.867 --> 00:27:32.969
Like laws help.

00:27:33.009 --> 00:27:33.568
Laws are good.

00:27:33.628 --> 00:27:35.029
That's I'm glad you guys have that,

00:27:35.309 --> 00:27:36.330
but I just really feel the need to

00:27:36.351 --> 00:27:36.871
point that out.

00:27:36.911 --> 00:27:38.372
Like still keep an eye on this stuff

00:27:38.432 --> 00:27:40.232
because laws can change.

00:27:40.413 --> 00:27:43.054
And I am under no delusion that European

00:27:43.094 --> 00:27:45.015
politicians care more about their citizens

00:27:45.036 --> 00:27:45.836
than the U S ones.

00:27:46.135 --> 00:27:46.977
They're just, you know,

00:27:47.277 --> 00:27:48.457
they put on a better facade about it

00:27:48.477 --> 00:27:49.938
in my opinion, but yeah,

00:27:49.978 --> 00:27:51.058
just to just keep that in mind,

00:27:51.118 --> 00:27:52.319
laws can change and that stuff can go

00:27:52.359 --> 00:27:52.539
away.

00:27:52.579 --> 00:27:53.759
We gotta,

00:27:53.779 --> 00:27:55.340
we gotta make sure that we're constantly

00:27:55.381 --> 00:27:56.481
fighting for our privacy rights,

00:27:56.501 --> 00:27:57.803
not taking it for granted.

00:27:58.323 --> 00:27:58.603
So yeah.

00:27:59.388 --> 00:28:00.328
Yeah, exactly.

00:28:00.628 --> 00:28:02.289
I mean, I don't know.

00:28:02.349 --> 00:28:05.590
This story is kind of, uh,

00:28:05.651 --> 00:28:05.990
I don't know.

00:28:06.171 --> 00:28:07.491
I think, yeah,

00:28:07.511 --> 00:28:08.892
there's laws in countries like the

00:28:08.932 --> 00:28:10.653
European union where like, you know,

00:28:11.893 --> 00:28:15.075
access to personal information for

00:28:15.154 --> 00:28:18.796
employment purposes is protected and not

00:28:19.155 --> 00:28:20.856
able to be run through an algorithm or

00:28:20.876 --> 00:28:21.297
whatever.

00:28:21.616 --> 00:28:22.277
Um,

00:28:22.477 --> 00:28:24.117
and there's laws against that in the EU

00:28:24.258 --> 00:28:24.657
and, um,

00:28:25.256 --> 00:28:26.875
I know in Australia, technically,

00:28:26.996 --> 00:28:28.896
that's classified as discrimination.

00:28:28.997 --> 00:28:33.617
So it depends on the country.

00:28:33.678 --> 00:28:34.557
But like Nate said,

00:28:34.597 --> 00:28:35.438
I think it's important.

00:28:35.897 --> 00:28:39.778
We can't just say, oh,

00:28:39.798 --> 00:28:41.420
it's just the US being the US.

00:28:41.500 --> 00:28:44.579
I think we should be constantly vigilant

00:28:44.799 --> 00:28:46.980
of governments that are trying to do this

00:28:47.020 --> 00:28:47.320
stuff.

00:28:49.727 --> 00:28:49.906
Yeah,

00:28:49.946 --> 00:28:51.087
so it is a good point that AI

00:28:51.107 --> 00:28:53.470
will just be fancy autocorrect and picking

00:28:53.490 --> 00:28:55.791
the most likely responses will inherently

00:28:55.832 --> 00:28:57.472
lead to a tyranny of the majority rather

00:28:57.512 --> 00:28:58.413
than a fair system.

00:28:59.653 --> 00:29:00.154
Exactly.

00:29:00.394 --> 00:29:04.097
So it kind of has that effect, right?

00:29:05.939 --> 00:29:09.300
I think, you know, it's more likely to,

00:29:09.362 --> 00:29:11.022
it basically just mirrors the reality,

00:29:11.083 --> 00:29:11.363
right?

00:29:11.942 --> 00:29:12.683
In a lot of cases,

00:29:12.703 --> 00:29:14.204
which the reality is people get

00:29:14.265 --> 00:29:16.787
discriminated against and people are paid

00:29:16.866 --> 00:29:18.028
less depending on their,

00:29:20.248 --> 00:29:21.429
their identity, which is,

00:29:21.769 --> 00:29:23.170
we've done studies on this.

00:29:23.410 --> 00:29:24.631
We know this is the case.

00:29:25.692 --> 00:29:26.852
It's kind of something that we're trying

00:29:26.872 --> 00:29:28.012
to fight against to stop,

00:29:28.212 --> 00:29:30.674
but it's not something we've completely

00:29:33.156 --> 00:29:33.656
solved.

00:29:33.936 --> 00:29:38.019
And yeah, I think, you know, if we,

00:29:38.200 --> 00:29:39.980
if we try and make sure people are

00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:40.561
aware of this,

00:29:40.682 --> 00:29:42.202
I think some of the stupid stuff that

00:29:42.222 --> 00:29:43.624
I've seen is a lot of companies are

00:29:43.644 --> 00:29:44.124
using like

00:29:45.480 --> 00:29:47.603
AI to scan people's resumes when they

00:29:47.623 --> 00:29:49.723
apply and it will like check the keywords

00:29:49.743 --> 00:29:51.285
and stuff and people were just like

00:29:51.444 --> 00:29:53.125
putting invisible keywords on their

00:29:53.165 --> 00:29:56.528
resumes To make it detect it like this

00:29:56.587 --> 00:29:59.250
is this is incredibly silly stuff I can't

00:29:59.269 --> 00:30:00.590
believe I have to say this but like

00:30:01.131 --> 00:30:03.512
we need to go back to when humans

00:30:03.553 --> 00:30:06.615
were reading resumes and interviewing

00:30:06.654 --> 00:30:08.256
people and not feeding their information

00:30:08.316 --> 00:30:10.057
through an AI system and

00:30:10.076 --> 00:30:11.979
That's also just terrible for the person's

00:30:12.038 --> 00:30:12.499
privacy.

00:30:12.538 --> 00:30:12.779
Like,

00:30:13.039 --> 00:30:15.102
I don't want everyone to know my

00:30:15.241 --> 00:30:17.584
employment history or where I worked or

00:30:18.224 --> 00:30:20.307
what I've the schools I've been to.

00:30:22.568 --> 00:30:23.809
And, you know,

00:30:23.829 --> 00:30:25.089
that's just another thing that we're

00:30:25.130 --> 00:30:26.349
feeding the AI systems.

00:30:26.611 --> 00:30:28.290
Like really we're putting all this

00:30:28.371 --> 00:30:31.172
information through these massive AI

00:30:31.211 --> 00:30:33.553
companies with like no corporate like

00:30:33.712 --> 00:30:35.034
control, especially in the US.

00:30:35.114 --> 00:30:36.773
Like there's, I feel like there's,

00:30:36.913 --> 00:30:38.535
it's very lax at the moment because the

00:30:38.555 --> 00:30:40.756
entire economy is basically propped up by

00:30:40.796 --> 00:30:42.497
the AI data center industry.

00:30:43.557 --> 00:30:44.817
It does seem like that is starting to

00:30:44.836 --> 00:30:45.978
fall down a little bit now,

00:30:46.397 --> 00:30:47.739
like with a lot of data centers being

00:30:47.778 --> 00:30:48.739
canceled, but.

00:30:50.194 --> 00:30:52.497
I definitely think the AI hype stuff is

00:30:53.077 --> 00:30:54.358
propping up a lot of stuff.

00:30:54.519 --> 00:30:56.240
And it kind of means that a lot

00:30:56.259 --> 00:31:02.664
of cases this behavior is allowed and when

00:31:02.704 --> 00:31:03.286
it shouldn't be.

00:31:04.366 --> 00:31:06.367
So, yeah.

00:31:06.387 --> 00:31:07.429
That's kind of my thoughts on that.

00:31:07.469 --> 00:31:08.950
Did you have anything more you wanted to

00:31:09.010 --> 00:31:11.472
add, Niamh?

00:31:11.573 --> 00:31:11.853
No.

00:31:13.273 --> 00:31:15.115
I think just, yeah, it's such a, like...

00:31:16.092 --> 00:31:18.273
it doesn't matter where you are in terms

00:31:18.314 --> 00:31:19.433
of your economic beliefs.

00:31:19.493 --> 00:31:20.914
Like even if you're a free market person,

00:31:21.256 --> 00:31:23.757
there's always going to be someone who can

00:31:23.797 --> 00:31:24.778
do the work for less.

00:31:25.178 --> 00:31:26.618
And when it's a race to the bottom

00:31:26.638 --> 00:31:27.819
like this, everyone loses.

00:31:27.940 --> 00:31:29.540
I mean, just look at airplanes, right?

00:31:29.641 --> 00:31:31.623
It's, you know,

00:31:31.803 --> 00:31:33.503
even Southwest now is getting away,

00:31:33.604 --> 00:31:35.085
doing away with their like first come

00:31:35.105 --> 00:31:37.026
first serve seating and like free check

00:31:37.046 --> 00:31:39.928
bag because it's becoming such a

00:31:39.968 --> 00:31:40.729
competitive market.

00:31:40.828 --> 00:31:42.450
And they, I don't know,

00:31:42.869 --> 00:31:43.951
it's such a race to the bottom.

00:31:44.330 --> 00:31:44.872
One of the,

00:31:46.161 --> 00:31:47.442
the headers here that I think I may

00:31:47.461 --> 00:31:48.842
have scrolled past said judging our

00:31:48.862 --> 00:31:50.903
desperation rate, which is again,

00:31:50.923 --> 00:31:51.983
it's just so predatory.

00:31:52.023 --> 00:31:55.244
It's one thing like surge pricing is one

00:31:55.285 --> 00:31:55.704
thing, right?

00:31:55.724 --> 00:31:57.465
Because surge pricing looks at the entire

00:31:57.506 --> 00:31:59.487
market and says using Uber as an example,

00:31:59.886 --> 00:32:01.028
a concert just ended.

00:32:01.367 --> 00:32:03.368
There's a, you know, ten thousand people.

00:32:03.429 --> 00:32:04.048
That's probably too many.

00:32:04.108 --> 00:32:05.690
Five thousand people in this one spot

00:32:05.710 --> 00:32:06.470
trying to get home.

00:32:06.950 --> 00:32:07.790
We're going to charge more.

00:32:08.090 --> 00:32:08.351
Right.

00:32:08.730 --> 00:32:10.751
But this is looking at an individual

00:32:10.771 --> 00:32:11.112
person.

00:32:11.152 --> 00:32:13.032
This is looking at you specifically and

00:32:13.053 --> 00:32:15.054
saying, I know that.

00:32:15.173 --> 00:32:17.757
that you've sent out five hundred resumes

00:32:17.817 --> 00:32:18.337
this week.

00:32:18.357 --> 00:32:19.538
I don't know how you did that.

00:32:19.558 --> 00:32:20.259
You probably used a bot,

00:32:20.359 --> 00:32:21.040
which I wouldn't blame you.

00:32:21.280 --> 00:32:22.803
You sent out five hundred resumes this

00:32:22.823 --> 00:32:23.002
week.

00:32:23.022 --> 00:32:25.465
You've gotten two callbacks and you've got

00:32:25.586 --> 00:32:27.208
a thousand dollars left in your savings

00:32:27.248 --> 00:32:27.548
account.

00:32:27.909 --> 00:32:29.569
You will literally do anything.

00:32:30.111 --> 00:32:31.211
And I'm going to give you the bare

00:32:31.231 --> 00:32:32.574
minimum that I can to make you say

00:32:32.614 --> 00:32:32.933
yes.

00:32:33.654 --> 00:32:34.875
but also not pay you.

00:32:35.036 --> 00:32:37.077
Your other coworkers are making more than

00:32:37.097 --> 00:32:37.439
you do.

00:32:37.739 --> 00:32:38.279
Personal opinion,

00:32:38.380 --> 00:32:39.901
I've always thought it was ridiculous that

00:32:40.442 --> 00:32:41.923
you're not supposed to talk about pay at

00:32:41.962 --> 00:32:42.163
work.

00:32:42.222 --> 00:32:42.364
No,

00:32:42.763 --> 00:32:44.265
I was always happy at my last job

00:32:44.285 --> 00:32:45.567
to tell people how much I was making

00:32:46.166 --> 00:32:47.528
because I wanted everyone else to know.

00:32:48.490 --> 00:32:49.490
I think I've mentioned this in my last

00:32:49.530 --> 00:32:49.810
job.

00:32:50.171 --> 00:32:50.391
I was...

00:32:51.152 --> 00:32:53.272
the highest paid person in in our job

00:32:53.313 --> 00:32:55.933
title just by sheer coincidence and luck i

00:32:55.953 --> 00:32:57.355
don't know how i got that and i

00:32:57.375 --> 00:32:58.694
was very open about that not because i

00:32:58.714 --> 00:33:00.016
wanted to brag it to everybody else but

00:33:00.036 --> 00:33:01.435
because i was like you guys like i

00:33:01.455 --> 00:33:02.656
don't think i'm better than everyone else

00:33:02.696 --> 00:33:04.017
you guys deserve to be getting paid more

00:33:04.057 --> 00:33:05.738
too and i would tell people that kind

00:33:05.758 --> 00:33:08.199
of stuff all the time so like yeah

00:33:08.939 --> 00:33:10.980
um jonah says five hundred resumes in a

00:33:11.019 --> 00:33:12.621
week sounds like fighting ai with ai hey

00:33:12.641 --> 00:33:14.461
man you know that's that's the the

00:33:14.501 --> 00:33:16.102
situation we're in right it's ai writing

00:33:16.162 --> 00:33:18.083
emails ai reading emails ai responding to

00:33:18.143 --> 00:33:20.023
emails it's yeah

00:33:20.595 --> 00:33:21.214
But I don't know.

00:33:21.315 --> 00:33:21.736
It's yeah,

00:33:21.836 --> 00:33:22.875
I'm kind of going off on a rant,

00:33:22.895 --> 00:33:25.176
but this just makes me so mad because

00:33:25.417 --> 00:33:27.719
it's so, I keep using the word predatory,

00:33:27.739 --> 00:33:30.440
but it removes, it removes everything.

00:33:30.500 --> 00:33:32.121
It removes the hard work.

00:33:32.240 --> 00:33:34.221
It removes the whole like, and again,

00:33:34.241 --> 00:33:35.423
it doesn't matter what your beliefs are.

00:33:35.462 --> 00:33:36.583
Even if you're like a pull yourself up

00:33:36.603 --> 00:33:37.523
out of your bootstraps person,

00:33:37.544 --> 00:33:40.025
you can't anymore because it removes that

00:33:40.065 --> 00:33:42.086
possibility because they know exactly how

00:33:42.105 --> 00:33:43.666
much you need and they will never give

00:33:43.686 --> 00:33:44.547
you a penny more.

00:33:45.248 --> 00:33:47.088
It's just, it just frustrates me.

00:33:47.169 --> 00:33:47.729
So sorry,

00:33:47.828 --> 00:33:49.069
I feel really passionately about this

00:33:49.089 --> 00:33:49.529
subject.

00:33:51.537 --> 00:33:51.757
Yeah,

00:33:51.957 --> 00:33:53.597
I think it goes without saying people

00:33:53.617 --> 00:33:56.099
should be paid a dignified amount.

00:33:57.299 --> 00:33:59.521
And yeah, I agree totally.

00:33:59.561 --> 00:34:01.323
Like, I think it is important to me.

00:34:01.643 --> 00:34:03.844
There's a weird culture around not sharing

00:34:04.845 --> 00:34:05.805
how much money you make.

00:34:05.964 --> 00:34:07.465
I'm not really sure what the reasoning is

00:34:07.526 --> 00:34:08.065
behind that,

00:34:08.186 --> 00:34:09.746
but I think it is important to be

00:34:10.268 --> 00:34:11.909
open about that, especially because,

00:34:12.849 --> 00:34:14.889
you know, your employer, well, I mean,

00:34:14.929 --> 00:34:15.690
not every employer,

00:34:15.751 --> 00:34:16.170
but this

00:34:17.677 --> 00:34:19.157
the people that are using this software,

00:34:19.197 --> 00:34:20.418
they are not holding back.

00:34:20.458 --> 00:34:22.019
They are doing everything in their power

00:34:22.059 --> 00:34:23.300
to pay you the least amount.

00:34:23.440 --> 00:34:26.561
So the least you can do is discuss

00:34:26.581 --> 00:34:30.204
this with your coworkers, um, unionize,

00:34:30.525 --> 00:34:31.545
do all those sorts of things.

00:34:31.605 --> 00:34:31.846
Right.

00:34:31.885 --> 00:34:35.148
Like, I dunno, maybe that's, uh,

00:34:35.228 --> 00:34:36.929
that's too much, but I think it is,

00:34:36.949 --> 00:34:41.030
uh, it is important, like another thing.

00:34:41.070 --> 00:34:41.291
Right.

00:34:41.851 --> 00:34:42.811
But I think, you know,

00:34:42.851 --> 00:34:44.273
if your employer is doing this sort of

00:34:44.293 --> 00:34:45.494
stuff to employ people,

00:34:47.139 --> 00:34:49.199
Name and shame, name and shame,

00:34:49.420 --> 00:34:50.099
like seriously,

00:34:50.179 --> 00:34:52.701
like that is the sort of thing that

00:34:53.021 --> 00:34:54.382
people go on strike for.

00:34:54.581 --> 00:34:57.983
So I think if there's companies that are

00:34:58.003 --> 00:34:58.503
doing this,

00:34:58.583 --> 00:35:02.063
definitely try and get them to stop

00:35:02.123 --> 00:35:04.844
because like Nate said,

00:35:05.184 --> 00:35:06.206
it's discriminatory.

00:35:06.226 --> 00:35:07.505
It's like, you know,

00:35:07.545 --> 00:35:09.927
it's removing people's power to control

00:35:09.967 --> 00:35:10.226
things.

00:35:11.724 --> 00:35:12.043
And yeah,

00:35:12.103 --> 00:35:13.585
if you think it's not already happening,

00:35:13.625 --> 00:35:15.045
definitely go read this article because

00:35:15.065 --> 00:35:17.208
they lay out several scenarios they looked

00:35:17.248 --> 00:35:18.467
at where it's like, this is happening,

00:35:18.528 --> 00:35:19.489
like not could happen.

00:35:19.528 --> 00:35:21.369
Like this is happening in like,

00:35:22.231 --> 00:35:23.132
they mentioned, what is it?

00:35:24.592 --> 00:35:25.253
What is it?

00:35:25.333 --> 00:35:27.894
Staffing, gig nurses, again, gig workers,

00:35:27.934 --> 00:35:28.875
DoorDash, Uber,

00:35:28.954 --> 00:35:30.516
like it's already happening there.

00:35:31.197 --> 00:35:32.498
There's no reason it's going to stop.

00:35:32.617 --> 00:35:34.278
And God,

00:35:34.338 --> 00:35:35.639
twice now I've had something pop into my

00:35:35.679 --> 00:35:36.721
head and then I lost it.

00:35:36.740 --> 00:35:40.322
I hate when that happens, but.

00:35:41.177 --> 00:35:41.659
Yeah, it's...

00:35:43.503 --> 00:35:46.048
This is one of those moments where laws...

00:35:46.389 --> 00:35:46.570
I mean...

00:35:47.684 --> 00:35:48.766
I know laws are controversial.

00:35:48.786 --> 00:35:50.385
Like people are always afraid of

00:35:50.465 --> 00:35:51.867
over-regulation and afraid of like,

00:35:51.887 --> 00:35:52.226
you know, Oh,

00:35:52.246 --> 00:35:53.527
companies break laws all the time,

00:35:53.788 --> 00:35:54.007
but like,

00:35:54.047 --> 00:35:55.028
what else can we do about this?

00:35:55.068 --> 00:35:56.208
There is no, I mean, yes,

00:35:56.248 --> 00:35:57.690
we can all take our privacy seriously and

00:35:57.710 --> 00:35:58.090
we should,

00:35:58.150 --> 00:35:59.210
regardless of whether or not this is

00:35:59.231 --> 00:36:00.652
happening, but there's really like,

00:36:00.791 --> 00:36:02.092
I don't see any way to fix this

00:36:02.193 --> 00:36:03.592
other than just straight up outlawing it.

00:36:03.632 --> 00:36:04.554
Like we were talking about earlier,

00:36:04.594 --> 00:36:05.914
this is illegal in a lot of countries.

00:36:06.275 --> 00:36:07.275
It should be legal here in the U

00:36:07.454 --> 00:36:08.315
S it should be very illegal.

00:36:08.396 --> 00:36:10.257
Everyone should be mad and sending this to

00:36:10.277 --> 00:36:11.336
their politicians and being like,

00:36:11.356 --> 00:36:12.757
we need to outlaw this before it becomes

00:36:12.777 --> 00:36:13.597
a regular practice.

00:36:13.617 --> 00:36:13.878
Cause yeah,

00:36:15.239 --> 00:36:15.318
Oh,

00:36:15.338 --> 00:36:16.199
I remember what I was going to say.

00:36:16.239 --> 00:36:17.539
Because yeah, on that note,

00:36:17.699 --> 00:36:19.061
you can't tell me this is a problem

00:36:19.081 --> 00:36:20.181
that the free market is just going to

00:36:20.201 --> 00:36:20.541
fix.

00:36:20.581 --> 00:36:21.882
Because look at Amazon.

00:36:22.541 --> 00:36:23.922
Everyone knows Amazon,

00:36:24.163 --> 00:36:25.362
especially the Amazon brand,

00:36:25.682 --> 00:36:26.943
is usually cheap garbage.

00:36:27.224 --> 00:36:28.923
And you can't tell me that Amazon became

00:36:28.963 --> 00:36:30.985
the behemoth they are today by putting out

00:36:31.005 --> 00:36:31.605
the best product.

00:36:31.846 --> 00:36:33.485
They did it by undercutting everyone else,

00:36:33.766 --> 00:36:35.106
by knocking off everyone else,

00:36:35.367 --> 00:36:36.887
by using manipulative algorithms to

00:36:36.927 --> 00:36:38.268
prioritize their crap first.

00:36:38.327 --> 00:36:38.768
I guarantee you,

00:36:38.827 --> 00:36:40.548
Amazon doesn't pay for that ad slot at

00:36:40.568 --> 00:36:41.009
the beginning.

00:36:41.528 --> 00:36:42.650
It's just, this is not...

00:36:43.670 --> 00:36:47.277
Yeah, this is a complicated thing to fix.

00:36:47.538 --> 00:36:49.242
And it's not just going to fix itself.

00:36:49.282 --> 00:36:50.143
That's what I'm getting at.

00:36:50.164 --> 00:36:51.987
But anyways,

00:36:52.208 --> 00:36:53.289
I think we beat that to death unless

00:36:53.309 --> 00:36:54.472
you have something else to add there.

00:36:57.190 --> 00:37:00.652
Okay, so in a minute,

00:37:00.672 --> 00:37:02.353
we're gonna talk about how the FBI was

00:37:02.414 --> 00:37:05.175
able to recover signal messages, sort of,

00:37:05.335 --> 00:37:07.557
from a locally stored database on a phone.

00:37:08.117 --> 00:37:08.518
But first,

00:37:08.679 --> 00:37:10.239
we're gonna talk about some updates about

00:37:10.280 --> 00:37:11.561
what we've been working on at Privacy

00:37:11.601 --> 00:37:12.240
Guides this week.

00:37:12.621 --> 00:37:13.342
And the first thing is,

00:37:13.521 --> 00:37:15.664
we have a new interview coming out on

00:37:15.744 --> 00:37:16.264
Sunday.

00:37:18.445 --> 00:37:19.547
If you guys have not seen that yet,

00:37:19.586 --> 00:37:20.407
it's in the newsletter.

00:37:20.586 --> 00:37:22.188
Go check out privacyguides.org slash

00:37:22.228 --> 00:37:22.728
livestreams.

00:37:22.768 --> 00:37:23.710
It should be there right now.

00:37:24.103 --> 00:37:25.244
That's live streams with an S on the

00:37:25.284 --> 00:37:26.025
end, just by the way.

00:37:26.644 --> 00:37:28.585
And we have an interview with the one

00:37:28.606 --> 00:37:30.686
and only executive director of the EFF,

00:37:30.887 --> 00:37:33.168
Cindy Cohen, will be coming out on Sunday.

00:37:34.068 --> 00:37:35.148
I'm super excited for it.

00:37:35.949 --> 00:37:36.730
I was the one who got to do

00:37:36.750 --> 00:37:38.411
the interview and I'm still excited about

00:37:38.471 --> 00:37:38.590
it.

00:37:39.110 --> 00:37:40.050
It was really cool.

00:37:40.092 --> 00:37:40.751
She was awesome.

00:37:41.351 --> 00:37:42.331
And I think it was a really good

00:37:42.351 --> 00:37:42.612
interview.

00:37:42.672 --> 00:37:44.592
I tried to make sure it was applicable

00:37:44.612 --> 00:37:45.054
to everyone.

00:37:45.114 --> 00:37:46.753
So we talked about how to stay motivated

00:37:47.675 --> 00:37:49.094
in the fight for privacy.

00:37:49.135 --> 00:37:50.135
We talked about how to build a good

00:37:50.155 --> 00:37:50.635
community.

00:37:51.056 --> 00:37:53.036
We talked about what she learned in her

00:37:53.077 --> 00:37:54.918
time fighting with the government and her

00:37:54.958 --> 00:37:56.038
kind of insights on that.

00:37:56.097 --> 00:37:58.139
So really excited for that.

00:37:58.539 --> 00:38:00.739
Make sure you're subscribed on YouTube,

00:38:00.800 --> 00:38:01.380
on PeerTube,

00:38:01.400 --> 00:38:02.800
because we'll be posting it there as well.

00:38:03.581 --> 00:38:04.221
PeerTube, of course,

00:38:04.260 --> 00:38:05.581
does not have the little premiere feature,

00:38:05.621 --> 00:38:07.202
but obviously we do post everything on

00:38:07.222 --> 00:38:07.842
PeerTube as well.

00:38:07.882 --> 00:38:08.023
So

00:38:09.110 --> 00:38:10.030
Make sure to check that out.

00:38:10.190 --> 00:38:12.371
And just to hype you guys up for

00:38:12.411 --> 00:38:13.751
it a little bit, on the XIX,

00:38:13.791 --> 00:38:15.713
we're also going to be interviewing

00:38:15.952 --> 00:38:18.793
Carissa Veiles about her upcoming book,

00:38:18.873 --> 00:38:21.034
which is coincidentally about AI and all

00:38:21.054 --> 00:38:22.135
this stuff we just talked about.

00:38:22.596 --> 00:38:23.956
And a lot of the stuff I got,

00:38:25.277 --> 00:38:25.476
you know,

00:38:25.496 --> 00:38:26.398
a lot of the stuff I was saying

00:38:26.418 --> 00:38:27.958
about how this makes it deterministic and

00:38:27.978 --> 00:38:29.478
it removes meritocracy.

00:38:29.539 --> 00:38:29.759
Like,

00:38:30.579 --> 00:38:32.000
these are all things that she talks about

00:38:32.059 --> 00:38:33.320
in her book and in her interview.

00:38:33.400 --> 00:38:33.561
So...

00:38:34.621 --> 00:38:34.981
Yeah.

00:38:35.202 --> 00:38:36.503
And then my last thought is that we

00:38:36.623 --> 00:38:38.706
are working on a video coming up soon

00:38:38.885 --> 00:38:40.427
that many of you have requested.

00:38:40.567 --> 00:38:41.788
And that's all I'm going to say to

00:38:41.807 --> 00:38:42.728
kind of build a little bit of hype

00:38:42.789 --> 00:38:43.210
for that.

00:38:43.369 --> 00:38:44.490
So that is what is going on on

00:38:44.530 --> 00:38:45.512
the video front here.

00:38:46.231 --> 00:38:47.313
And I'm going to turn it over now

00:38:47.373 --> 00:38:49.594
to Jordan to let me know what I

00:38:49.614 --> 00:38:50.076
may have missed.

00:38:51.634 --> 00:38:52.635
No, didn't miss anything.

00:38:53.034 --> 00:38:55.016
But we do have some other things that

00:38:55.036 --> 00:38:56.639
we've been working on more on the site

00:38:56.679 --> 00:38:57.539
update section.

00:38:58.000 --> 00:38:59.521
So there wasn't any site updates this

00:38:59.561 --> 00:39:00.922
week, but there was.

00:39:01.742 --> 00:39:03.664
Freya has put out another article here.

00:39:03.684 --> 00:39:06.726
It's about OKCupid settling after selling

00:39:06.786 --> 00:39:08.849
three million photos to a facial

00:39:08.889 --> 00:39:09.989
recognition company.

00:39:10.820 --> 00:39:11.201
Oh,

00:39:11.721 --> 00:39:13.443
now that's probably not what you want to

00:39:13.463 --> 00:39:14.905
hear about your dating app.

00:39:15.126 --> 00:39:16.626
But yeah, if that sounds interesting,

00:39:16.646 --> 00:39:17.588
you can check that out.

00:39:17.628 --> 00:39:20.672
Go to privacyguides.org slash news to

00:39:20.711 --> 00:39:21.273
check it out.

00:39:22.735 --> 00:39:24.036
And we've also been what,

00:39:24.056 --> 00:39:26.639
so our activism lead,

00:39:27.619 --> 00:39:29.239
M has been working on a section for

00:39:29.260 --> 00:39:29.900
the website,

00:39:29.940 --> 00:39:32.320
which if you haven't called it already,

00:39:32.360 --> 00:39:36.322
there was the Privacy Activist Toolbox has

00:39:36.342 --> 00:39:36.983
been released.

00:39:37.103 --> 00:39:38.664
So you can visit that by going to

00:39:39.184 --> 00:39:41.445
privacyguides.org slash activism.

00:39:41.885 --> 00:39:44.286
There's the Privacy Activist Toolbox,

00:39:44.306 --> 00:39:46.568
which came out a couple of weeks ago.

00:39:47.248 --> 00:39:48.688
And that has a lot of tips about

00:39:49.088 --> 00:39:49.469
how to

00:39:50.503 --> 00:39:53.028
be an effective privacy activist.

00:39:53.148 --> 00:39:54.391
There's a lot of great tips in there,

00:39:54.771 --> 00:39:58.438
but she's also released this new support

00:39:58.458 --> 00:40:00.161
request here on GitHub and

00:40:01.396 --> 00:40:03.577
Basically, it's for a DPA directory.

00:40:04.159 --> 00:40:06.360
So there's data protection authorities and

00:40:06.400 --> 00:40:08.961
that's basically the organizations that

00:40:08.981 --> 00:40:13.264
you need to contact to lodge a complaint

00:40:13.324 --> 00:40:13.545
with.

00:40:14.085 --> 00:40:16.967
So this pull request has got basically all

00:40:17.007 --> 00:40:18.188
the regions in the world.

00:40:18.527 --> 00:40:19.869
Well, I mean, I'm not sure if...

00:40:20.699 --> 00:40:20.880
Yeah,

00:40:20.940 --> 00:40:22.641
basically every region that you would

00:40:22.681 --> 00:40:22.981
think.

00:40:24.563 --> 00:40:26.304
I'm sure there could be some that we're

00:40:26.324 --> 00:40:26.684
missing,

00:40:26.884 --> 00:40:28.125
but I think Em has done a really

00:40:28.144 --> 00:40:30.487
good job here and has covered, I think,

00:40:31.007 --> 00:40:31.947
basically all of them.

00:40:31.987 --> 00:40:33.329
But there could be small ones that we

00:40:33.349 --> 00:40:34.750
didn't find.

00:40:36.550 --> 00:40:37.751
So if there is any of those,

00:40:37.851 --> 00:40:38.813
I guess you could take a look at

00:40:38.853 --> 00:40:41.215
the pull request and suggest adding those.

00:40:41.594 --> 00:40:44.396
But so far, what we've got is Africa,

00:40:44.617 --> 00:40:46.958
Asia, Europe, North America, Oceania,

00:40:47.139 --> 00:40:48.360
and South America.

00:40:49.539 --> 00:40:52.521
So basically it will list the privacy law

00:40:52.581 --> 00:40:54.581
in particular, the abbreviation,

00:40:54.800 --> 00:40:56.422
the data protection authority.

00:40:56.461 --> 00:40:57.481
So you can click on that.

00:40:58.141 --> 00:41:00.742
And there's also a contact page link and

00:41:00.762 --> 00:41:01.563
a complaint link.

00:41:01.603 --> 00:41:03.503
So you can basically get directly to the

00:41:03.523 --> 00:41:05.903
page that has the complaint form.

00:41:06.023 --> 00:41:07.764
So basically what we're trying to do with

00:41:07.784 --> 00:41:09.724
this is make it as easy as possible

00:41:09.764 --> 00:41:11.706
for people to make a complaint against a

00:41:11.746 --> 00:41:14.545
company, against the government, because,

00:41:14.606 --> 00:41:14.887
you know,

00:41:15.027 --> 00:41:16.266
this is kind of important to

00:41:18.277 --> 00:41:18.737
utilize.

00:41:18.797 --> 00:41:20.778
Because if you don't use your privacy

00:41:20.838 --> 00:41:23.878
rights, well,

00:41:24.139 --> 00:41:25.378
you're not going to have privacy.

00:41:25.438 --> 00:41:28.260
So if there's companies that are misusing

00:41:28.280 --> 00:41:28.840
your data,

00:41:29.119 --> 00:41:30.420
or if you want to get something deleted,

00:41:31.201 --> 00:41:33.661
I think using this DPA directory is going

00:41:33.681 --> 00:41:34.780
to be really helpful.

00:41:35.601 --> 00:41:38.521
So definitely stay tuned for that.

00:41:38.661 --> 00:41:39.922
I know Jonah said he was taking a

00:41:39.981 --> 00:41:41.001
look at the pull request.

00:41:41.041 --> 00:41:42.762
So I'm sure it'll be released in the

00:41:42.802 --> 00:41:43.523
next couple of

00:41:44.135 --> 00:41:46.836
weeks so it does look really nice uh

00:41:46.916 --> 00:41:48.478
definitely check out the pull request on

00:41:48.518 --> 00:41:51.478
github there's a preview there um but it's

00:41:51.559 --> 00:41:54.800
really well put together um so i

00:41:54.820 --> 00:41:57.460
definitely recommend checking that out um

00:41:57.521 --> 00:41:58.902
it has you know all the regions that

00:41:58.922 --> 00:42:00.141
you would expect but if there's any

00:42:00.181 --> 00:42:02.463
regions that we missed or you know that

00:42:02.503 --> 00:42:04.724
there's that we need to add still um

00:42:04.824 --> 00:42:06.664
that you think we might have missed this

00:42:06.824 --> 00:42:09.085
there's just so many countries on earth um

00:42:09.126 --> 00:42:10.626
we i'm sure we might have missed one

00:42:10.646 --> 00:42:12.688
or two so if there's anything that you

00:42:12.708 --> 00:42:13.648
would recommend seeing

00:42:14.128 --> 00:42:15.027
adding to that, um,

00:42:15.068 --> 00:42:16.268
if you're from one of those countries,

00:42:16.688 --> 00:42:18.250
definitely do reach out and let us know.

00:42:18.610 --> 00:42:18.690
Um,

00:42:18.750 --> 00:42:20.110
it's kind of going to be a community

00:42:20.170 --> 00:42:21.371
project, I guess.

00:42:21.610 --> 00:42:24.391
Um, if there's, there's a couple of, um,

00:42:24.411 --> 00:42:28.153
countries now that are sort of in the

00:42:28.293 --> 00:42:30.394
process of putting together a data

00:42:30.434 --> 00:42:31.295
protection authority,

00:42:31.315 --> 00:42:32.115
which is really good,

00:42:32.155 --> 00:42:33.996
like Egypt and Mexico.

00:42:34.195 --> 00:42:35.597
So definitely, uh,

00:42:35.876 --> 00:42:37.297
keep an eye on that as well.

00:42:37.697 --> 00:42:37.797
Um,

00:42:39.275 --> 00:42:41.576
There's definitely a lot of important

00:42:41.615 --> 00:42:42.275
information there,

00:42:42.315 --> 00:42:44.836
but also it's sort of a project here

00:42:45.036 --> 00:42:49.898
where we are trying to get community input

00:42:49.958 --> 00:42:50.318
as well,

00:42:50.358 --> 00:42:53.039
because we try and represent every country

00:42:53.079 --> 00:42:53.340
here,

00:42:53.400 --> 00:42:56.161
but I'm sure there's things that change or

00:42:56.221 --> 00:42:58.501
if there's countries that are establishing

00:42:58.541 --> 00:42:59.822
data protection authorities,

00:43:00.503 --> 00:43:02.762
then that's a really positive step for

00:43:02.802 --> 00:43:04.003
people in those countries as well.

00:43:06.068 --> 00:43:06.289
Yep,

00:43:06.329 --> 00:43:08.411
so that's basically everything that I've

00:43:08.451 --> 00:43:09.913
got to talk about here.

00:43:11.034 --> 00:43:12.496
There wasn't any articles this week,

00:43:12.896 --> 00:43:14.838
so kind of a light week on that

00:43:14.898 --> 00:43:15.159
side.

00:43:15.239 --> 00:43:16.740
But yeah,

00:43:16.780 --> 00:43:18.103
I guess we can hop right into our

00:43:18.143 --> 00:43:19.264
next story here.

00:43:21.583 --> 00:43:22.844
Oh, actually, before we do that,

00:43:23.405 --> 00:43:24.744
all of this is made possible by our

00:43:24.764 --> 00:43:25.324
supporters,

00:43:25.525 --> 00:43:26.905
and you can sign up for a membership

00:43:27.045 --> 00:43:29.427
or donate at privacyguides.org or pick up

00:43:29.447 --> 00:43:32.708
some swag at shop.privacyguides.org.

00:43:33.409 --> 00:43:35.708
I recently made another purchase on the

00:43:35.728 --> 00:43:36.050
shop.

00:43:36.489 --> 00:43:38.010
There's some really cool new merch that we

00:43:38.030 --> 00:43:39.670
released for the activism section,

00:43:39.690 --> 00:43:40.751
so definitely check that out.

00:43:42.572 --> 00:43:44.293
and have a look if you didn't visit

00:43:44.313 --> 00:43:44.893
it in a while.

00:43:44.913 --> 00:43:46.313
There's some new stuff on there now.

00:43:46.574 --> 00:43:48.295
Privacy Guides is a nonprofit which

00:43:48.335 --> 00:43:50.335
researches and shares privacy-related

00:43:50.376 --> 00:43:53.277
information and facilitates a community on

00:43:53.336 --> 00:43:55.878
our forum and matrix where people can ask

00:43:55.898 --> 00:43:57.878
questions and get advice about staying

00:43:57.918 --> 00:44:00.039
private online and preserving their

00:44:00.079 --> 00:44:02.061
digital rights.

00:44:02.260 --> 00:44:02.581
Now,

00:44:02.900 --> 00:44:06.041
let's talk about how little snitch is

00:44:06.101 --> 00:44:07.103
coming to Linux.

00:44:09.112 --> 00:44:11.295
So kind of a big announcement from Little

00:44:11.335 --> 00:44:11.675
Snitch,

00:44:11.715 --> 00:44:14.838
which has been historically a Mac OS only

00:44:15.018 --> 00:44:15.277
app.

00:44:16.920 --> 00:44:18.940
They've now announced that there is a

00:44:19.021 --> 00:44:22.583
version available for Linux.

00:44:23.164 --> 00:44:24.925
So this is kind of reading a little

00:44:24.945 --> 00:44:26.887
bit from their blog post here announcing

00:44:26.927 --> 00:44:27.068
it.

00:44:27.327 --> 00:44:28.469
I guess press release.

00:44:28.869 --> 00:44:30.371
Recent political events have pushed

00:44:30.411 --> 00:44:32.331
governments and organizations to seriously

00:44:32.351 --> 00:44:34.173
question their dependence on foreign

00:44:34.233 --> 00:44:35.155
controlled software.

00:44:35.898 --> 00:44:37.460
The core issue is simple and

00:44:37.500 --> 00:44:38.019
uncomfortable.

00:44:38.579 --> 00:44:39.621
Through automatic updates,

00:44:39.721 --> 00:44:41.862
a vendor can run any code with any

00:44:41.922 --> 00:44:43.822
privileges on your machine at any time.

00:44:44.083 --> 00:44:44.943
Most people know this,

00:44:45.103 --> 00:44:46.704
but prefer not to think about it.

00:44:47.824 --> 00:44:49.465
Linux is the obvious candidate for

00:44:49.505 --> 00:44:50.766
reducing that dependency.

00:44:51.186 --> 00:44:53.047
No single company controls it.

00:44:53.327 --> 00:44:54.547
No single country owns it.

00:44:54.927 --> 00:44:56.927
So I decided to explore it myself.

00:44:58.289 --> 00:44:59.849
And basically the article goes on to say

00:45:00.289 --> 00:45:02.590
that this person was trying to find an

00:45:02.630 --> 00:45:04.030
alternative to little snitch.

00:45:04.070 --> 00:45:05.291
They tried open snitch.

00:45:06.494 --> 00:45:09.217
which has several command line tools and

00:45:09.536 --> 00:45:10.157
stuff like that.

00:45:10.277 --> 00:45:11.838
But basically,

00:45:12.777 --> 00:45:15.179
it doesn't have the same ability to show

00:45:15.260 --> 00:45:17.601
which process is making connections,

00:45:18.840 --> 00:45:20.521
which is basically the way that it works

00:45:20.581 --> 00:45:21.222
on macOS.

00:45:21.242 --> 00:45:22.782
Like any process on macOS,

00:45:23.284 --> 00:45:25.065
you're able to see the connections and

00:45:25.105 --> 00:45:26.324
block them if you don't want them to

00:45:26.364 --> 00:45:26.846
be made.

00:45:28.806 --> 00:45:29.547
As far as I'm aware,

00:45:31.074 --> 00:45:32.856
Open Snitch is somewhat a little bit more

00:45:32.916 --> 00:45:33.295
limited.

00:45:33.315 --> 00:45:35.657
It kind of only does like application

00:45:35.697 --> 00:45:36.018
level.

00:45:36.378 --> 00:45:37.938
I'm not a hundred percent sure because

00:45:37.978 --> 00:45:40.360
it's been quite a few years since I've

00:45:40.721 --> 00:45:41.922
used Open Snitch.

00:45:42.282 --> 00:45:45.083
And it did seem like it was a

00:45:45.164 --> 00:45:46.824
bit more complex.

00:45:47.385 --> 00:45:50.186
So to use like the interface wasn't

00:45:50.306 --> 00:45:51.367
particularly easy.

00:45:52.909 --> 00:45:54.789
So this person has developed,

00:45:54.829 --> 00:45:57.092
this person at Objective Development has

00:45:57.791 --> 00:45:58.652
created a

00:46:00.592 --> 00:46:03.574
linux version of little snitch now let's

00:46:03.693 --> 00:46:06.195
like kind of clear the clear the air

00:46:06.215 --> 00:46:09.398
on how this works so basically it is

00:46:09.557 --> 00:46:10.858
there's another app on little snitch on

00:46:10.898 --> 00:46:12.260
mac os but i can't remember what it's

00:46:12.300 --> 00:46:13.740
called so there is another app on the

00:46:14.041 --> 00:46:15.922
it's called lulu and it's by

00:46:17.422 --> 00:46:18.063
another company.

00:46:18.503 --> 00:46:19.603
It's a nonprofit company.

00:46:21.065 --> 00:46:22.324
So definitely, yeah,

00:46:22.385 --> 00:46:23.626
Lulu is the other one you're thinking

00:46:23.666 --> 00:46:23.865
about.

00:46:24.286 --> 00:46:24.786
But yeah,

00:46:24.806 --> 00:46:26.467
this one here is Little Snitch has

00:46:26.706 --> 00:46:28.407
previously been a paid software.

00:46:28.507 --> 00:46:29.827
So it's actually kind of surprising that

00:46:29.867 --> 00:46:32.128
this is a free and open source.

00:46:32.309 --> 00:46:34.469
It's licensed under GPL v.

00:46:34.949 --> 00:46:36.451
So it could be quite cool to see

00:46:36.490 --> 00:46:38.351
package managers just adding this by

00:46:38.391 --> 00:46:38.751
default,

00:46:38.811 --> 00:46:40.273
like just adding this as a package.

00:46:42.293 --> 00:46:45.974
But basically, the way that this works is

00:46:47.034 --> 00:46:50.414
It is a browser app, kind of.

00:46:50.474 --> 00:46:51.956
It's like a web app, basically.

00:46:52.396 --> 00:46:54.335
And the reason why they decided to go

00:46:54.356 --> 00:46:58.498
with this is that it can work on

00:46:58.538 --> 00:46:59.597
a server, right?

00:46:59.637 --> 00:47:01.298
Because this is something that you just

00:47:01.338 --> 00:47:02.739
run as a system process.

00:47:03.559 --> 00:47:05.000
For instance, basically,

00:47:05.039 --> 00:47:07.641
that allows you to access the connections

00:47:07.661 --> 00:47:09.740
that the server is making through that

00:47:09.800 --> 00:47:10.581
nice interface.

00:47:12.543 --> 00:47:14.503
So that's a benefit of it being in

00:47:14.543 --> 00:47:15.364
the browser, right?

00:47:15.643 --> 00:47:18.465
You can access that for a remote computer,

00:47:18.684 --> 00:47:20.344
which is extremely useful.

00:47:20.824 --> 00:47:23.286
I'm not really sure of many solutions that

00:47:23.326 --> 00:47:24.166
do this sort of thing,

00:47:24.766 --> 00:47:25.686
especially that easily.

00:47:25.706 --> 00:47:27.027
You just install a package and it's

00:47:27.126 --> 00:47:27.967
instantly monitoring.

00:47:28.686 --> 00:47:32.608
But kind of scrolling down here,

00:47:33.407 --> 00:47:35.309
this is basically based on a kernel

00:47:35.349 --> 00:47:37.728
component written for eBPF.

00:47:38.128 --> 00:47:39.769
And that's an open source component

00:47:41.284 --> 00:47:42.505
which is available.

00:47:43.186 --> 00:47:44.188
So just to be clear,

00:47:44.228 --> 00:47:47.414
the UI is open source and the eBPF

00:47:47.713 --> 00:47:50.759
filtering component is free and open

00:47:50.798 --> 00:47:51.099
source,

00:47:51.139 --> 00:47:51.579
but the

00:47:52.987 --> 00:47:53.987
Basically, the backend,

00:47:54.208 --> 00:47:55.969
which manages rules, block lists,

00:47:56.130 --> 00:47:59.072
and a hierarchical connection view is free

00:47:59.092 --> 00:48:00.574
to use, but not open source.

00:48:00.614 --> 00:48:02.516
So that's basically the reasoning behind

00:48:02.556 --> 00:48:04.759
that is because that part is kind of

00:48:05.059 --> 00:48:07.942
proprietary to objective development.

00:48:07.961 --> 00:48:09.163
They've been working on that for like,

00:48:09.202 --> 00:48:10.583
twenty years to perfect it.

00:48:10.704 --> 00:48:14.007
So they argue that that should be

00:48:14.809 --> 00:48:15.951
kept closed.

00:48:17.411 --> 00:48:20.193
And they kind of did an important note

00:48:20.233 --> 00:48:20.554
here.

00:48:20.673 --> 00:48:21.893
Unlike the Mac OS version,

00:48:21.934 --> 00:48:24.175
Little Snitch for Linux is not a security

00:48:24.215 --> 00:48:24.496
tool.

00:48:24.996 --> 00:48:27.458
eBPF provides limited resources,

00:48:27.657 --> 00:48:30.159
so it's always possible to get around the

00:48:30.179 --> 00:48:31.360
firewall, for instance,

00:48:31.420 --> 00:48:32.740
by flooding tables.

00:48:32.920 --> 00:48:34.621
Its focus is privacy,

00:48:35.041 --> 00:48:36.503
showing you what's going on and,

00:48:36.563 --> 00:48:37.103
where needed,

00:48:37.204 --> 00:48:38.844
blocking connections from legitimate

00:48:38.885 --> 00:48:41.746
software that isn't actively trying to

00:48:41.806 --> 00:48:42.246
evade it.

00:48:42.987 --> 00:48:45.431
So if you install malware,

00:48:45.913 --> 00:48:47.795
little snitch is not going to protect you

00:48:47.815 --> 00:48:50.240
from the connections getting out, right?

00:48:52.047 --> 00:48:53.329
And at least right now,

00:48:53.369 --> 00:48:54.690
there are some limitations.

00:48:55.190 --> 00:48:57.150
I did see some people having issues with

00:48:57.331 --> 00:48:59.333
Fedora workstation working correctly.

00:48:59.353 --> 00:49:01.253
They do note that on the page,

00:49:01.614 --> 00:49:02.414
on the download page.

00:49:03.454 --> 00:49:06.896
I tested it on Debian and it was

00:49:06.956 --> 00:49:08.217
working perfectly fine for me.

00:49:08.378 --> 00:49:11.840
You just install the package and basically

00:49:11.900 --> 00:49:14.322
it only works on kernel Linux kernel six

00:49:14.382 --> 00:49:15.702
point one two and above.

00:49:16.661 --> 00:49:19.402
So basically the reasoning behind this is

00:49:19.442 --> 00:49:22.503
that older kernels currently have an eBPF

00:49:23.003 --> 00:49:25.784
verifier maximum instruction limit.

00:49:26.585 --> 00:49:31.126
So they kind of have to backport this

00:49:31.206 --> 00:49:31.646
fix.

00:49:32.527 --> 00:49:34.347
Hopefully they can kind of get in contact

00:49:34.367 --> 00:49:37.068
with the Linux kernel developers and do

00:49:37.088 --> 00:49:37.349
that.

00:49:37.469 --> 00:49:39.070
So that is an interesting thing too.

00:49:40.342 --> 00:49:42.963
But I think this is kind of a

00:49:43.043 --> 00:49:45.204
pretty, it's a pretty basic app so far.

00:49:45.244 --> 00:49:47.786
Like it allows you to enable block lists

00:49:47.905 --> 00:49:49.347
and see the connections that your computer

00:49:49.367 --> 00:49:49.766
is making.

00:49:49.806 --> 00:49:51.887
But I think that's really all you really

00:49:51.947 --> 00:49:52.849
need at this point.

00:49:53.369 --> 00:49:54.909
I think just being able to see the

00:49:54.949 --> 00:49:55.869
connections itself,

00:49:55.889 --> 00:49:57.971
because a lot of times you'll be using

00:49:58.050 --> 00:49:59.452
software and you won't realize that it's

00:49:59.492 --> 00:50:03.193
making connections to like ads and stuff

00:50:03.213 --> 00:50:03.653
like that.

00:50:05.679 --> 00:50:07.240
especially if you're using software that

00:50:07.862 --> 00:50:09.963
is genuine it's genuine normal software

00:50:10.164 --> 00:50:12.666
but it's a proprietary app that you know

00:50:12.686 --> 00:50:14.186
might have some data tracking built in

00:50:14.226 --> 00:50:17.248
like discord or any of any other of

00:50:17.289 --> 00:50:19.231
those types of apps um i think this

00:50:19.271 --> 00:50:21.532
is an important tool to have on linux

00:50:21.833 --> 00:50:25.655
uh especially because people on linux

00:50:25.675 --> 00:50:28.338
still need to be able to see the

00:50:28.378 --> 00:50:30.199
connections that are being made and you

00:50:30.400 --> 00:50:33.161
know there's still privacy invasive stuff

00:50:33.222 --> 00:50:34.864
on linux uh you can install

00:50:35.932 --> 00:50:37.934
Facebook Messenger on Linux,

00:50:37.954 --> 00:50:39.594
you can install Discord on Linux,

00:50:39.614 --> 00:50:40.536
you can install Steam,

00:50:40.576 --> 00:50:41.996
like all these apps are not great for

00:50:42.016 --> 00:50:42.677
your privacy,

00:50:42.757 --> 00:50:44.637
but being able to see some of those

00:50:44.657 --> 00:50:46.838
connections I think is pretty important.

00:50:49.240 --> 00:50:49.460
But yeah,

00:50:49.481 --> 00:50:50.701
we kind of got this little poll up

00:50:50.721 --> 00:50:52.101
on the screen to use Little Snitch,

00:50:52.141 --> 00:50:52.902
you can type one,

00:50:53.003 --> 00:50:54.804
two or three in chat to respond and

00:50:54.824 --> 00:50:55.963
it'll pop up on the screen.

00:50:56.465 --> 00:50:57.324
But Nate,

00:50:57.344 --> 00:50:58.425
did you have any thoughts on this one?

00:51:00.512 --> 00:51:00.632
No,

00:51:00.672 --> 00:51:02.773
I think you kind of you kind of

00:51:02.833 --> 00:51:03.992
answered the question I was going to ask,

00:51:04.012 --> 00:51:04.512
which is, you know,

00:51:05.014 --> 00:51:07.094
Linux is known for being more private.

00:51:07.173 --> 00:51:08.695
So my first thought is kind of like,

00:51:09.394 --> 00:51:11.335
is there a use case for this?

00:51:11.396 --> 00:51:13.056
Why or why would people want to use

00:51:13.097 --> 00:51:13.237
this?

00:51:13.257 --> 00:51:14.657
And you made a really good point.

00:51:14.677 --> 00:51:16.838
You know, one of the this is

00:51:17.867 --> 00:51:19.507
tangentially related but you know a common

00:51:19.547 --> 00:51:20.688
question is like how do i get people

00:51:20.728 --> 00:51:23.389
to switch to xyz signal linux whatever and

00:51:23.869 --> 00:51:25.730
one of the things that we are you

00:51:25.750 --> 00:51:27.911
know myself and jonah and um you know

00:51:27.951 --> 00:51:29.931
some of us always say is like you

00:51:29.972 --> 00:51:31.893
have a lot more luck by focus focusing

00:51:31.932 --> 00:51:33.632
on the features and so one thing i

00:51:33.652 --> 00:51:34.853
like to point out i'm trying to get

00:51:34.873 --> 00:51:36.313
my sister to switch to linux because she

00:51:36.333 --> 00:51:37.715
was on windows ten and it's you know

00:51:37.755 --> 00:51:39.876
not getting updates anymore and um

00:51:40.724 --> 00:51:41.726
I'm going to do that with her next

00:51:41.746 --> 00:51:42.545
time I see her in person.

00:51:43.045 --> 00:51:43.867
And one of the things I'm going to

00:51:43.887 --> 00:51:44.666
try to convince her is, you know,

00:51:44.706 --> 00:51:45.947
like everything you do on a windows

00:51:45.967 --> 00:51:46.367
computer,

00:51:46.648 --> 00:51:47.929
you can more or less do on Linux,

00:51:47.969 --> 00:51:48.748
especially for her.

00:51:48.829 --> 00:51:49.489
If, if, you know,

00:51:49.969 --> 00:51:51.449
assuming she's not using any special

00:51:51.530 --> 00:51:52.431
software for her job.

00:51:53.172 --> 00:51:54.713
Um, you know, you can browse the internet,

00:51:54.733 --> 00:51:55.733
you can download discord.

00:51:55.773 --> 00:51:56.594
You can, uh,

00:51:56.614 --> 00:51:57.974
a lot of games are now gaming on

00:51:57.994 --> 00:51:59.614
Linux is doing really well from what I

00:51:59.635 --> 00:52:00.235
hear actually.

00:52:00.315 --> 00:52:02.755
So, um, for the most part, even,

00:52:02.856 --> 00:52:05.217
even some video editing, you know, uh,

00:52:05.237 --> 00:52:06.838
the, the Linux computer I use is cube.

00:52:06.858 --> 00:52:08.239
So that's a lost cause,

00:52:08.259 --> 00:52:09.039
but for like Fedora,

00:52:09.079 --> 00:52:10.460
you can run DaVinci on Fedora.

00:52:10.480 --> 00:52:10.820
And I think.

00:52:11.659 --> 00:52:13.822
Um, you know, there's, yeah,

00:52:13.862 --> 00:52:15.583
it's just point being is like,

00:52:15.682 --> 00:52:17.623
just because Linux itself is relatively

00:52:17.664 --> 00:52:18.023
private,

00:52:18.385 --> 00:52:19.786
but especially once you start adding on a

00:52:19.826 --> 00:52:20.326
lot of these,

00:52:20.445 --> 00:52:21.907
these features that people might use,

00:52:21.987 --> 00:52:22.547
even at first,

00:52:22.586 --> 00:52:23.967
like if somebody makes a switch to Linux

00:52:24.588 --> 00:52:26.789
and at first they start using, uh,

00:52:26.989 --> 00:52:28.371
Microsoft office, God forbid,

00:52:28.411 --> 00:52:28.891
or something.

00:52:28.911 --> 00:52:29.731
I don't even know if that's Linux

00:52:29.751 --> 00:52:30.652
compatible, but you know what I mean?

00:52:30.672 --> 00:52:32.233
Like they start off and then after a

00:52:32.253 --> 00:52:34.094
while, they're just like, yeah, you know,

00:52:34.195 --> 00:52:35.456
maybe I'll check out LibreOffice or

00:52:35.496 --> 00:52:35.815
something.

00:52:35.856 --> 00:52:37.577
And, and, you know, it's,

00:52:37.918 --> 00:52:39.398
it's just helpful to kind of have that

00:52:39.579 --> 00:52:40.699
ability to control things.

00:52:41.579 --> 00:52:42.481
It may also let you know,

00:52:42.541 --> 00:52:43.844
like if you fire it up and you're

00:52:43.864 --> 00:52:44.465
like, oh my God,

00:52:44.485 --> 00:52:45.806
this thing is pinging like twenty

00:52:45.827 --> 00:52:47.168
different servers ten times a day.

00:52:47.208 --> 00:52:47.628
Like, hold on,

00:52:47.648 --> 00:52:48.670
let me take a closer look at this

00:52:48.690 --> 00:52:48.951
thing.

00:52:49.210 --> 00:52:51.715
So, yeah, it's pretty cool.

00:52:51.755 --> 00:52:53.677
And I... I don't know.

00:52:53.737 --> 00:52:55.159
I think that's really cool that he made

00:52:55.199 --> 00:52:55.420
this...

00:52:59.199 --> 00:53:00.840
I guess the selfish side of me would

00:53:00.860 --> 00:53:02.001
like to see this come to something like

00:53:02.021 --> 00:53:02.360
windows,

00:53:02.400 --> 00:53:03.521
even though I know we already have things

00:53:03.541 --> 00:53:06.063
like port master open, what is it?

00:53:06.143 --> 00:53:07.182
Open wall, simple wall.

00:53:08.164 --> 00:53:09.204
But it's not quite one-to-one.

00:53:09.284 --> 00:53:11.405
So I think anytime we have more,

00:53:12.045 --> 00:53:13.565
more options is always good in my book.

00:53:13.887 --> 00:53:14.706
So I think that's pretty cool.

00:53:16.471 --> 00:53:16.710
Yeah,

00:53:16.931 --> 00:53:18.851
I think I'm also kind of biased on

00:53:18.871 --> 00:53:20.652
this because I use their software.

00:53:20.911 --> 00:53:22.371
I use Little Snitch on Mac.

00:53:22.452 --> 00:53:24.833
I really think it is exceptional software.

00:53:25.932 --> 00:53:28.032
People say to use Lulu because it's free,

00:53:28.112 --> 00:53:30.594
but it really does not do the same

00:53:30.634 --> 00:53:31.653
thing as Little Snitch.

00:53:31.673 --> 00:53:35.135
Little Snitch has a lot of benefits over

00:53:36.755 --> 00:53:37.375
that.

00:53:37.394 --> 00:53:39.635
So it's great to see them kind of

00:53:39.835 --> 00:53:40.835
expanding because...

00:53:41.925 --> 00:53:43.427
people have kind of been complaining about

00:53:43.467 --> 00:53:44.027
little snitch.

00:53:44.067 --> 00:53:44.867
They're like, Oh,

00:53:45.068 --> 00:53:46.088
I wish it was on windows.

00:53:46.128 --> 00:53:47.548
Like you, like, uh,

00:53:47.568 --> 00:53:49.088
I wish it was on Linux, you know,

00:53:49.369 --> 00:53:51.351
different platforms I think is good.

00:53:51.690 --> 00:53:51.871
I mean,

00:53:51.990 --> 00:53:53.231
I'd like to see it be on windows

00:53:53.291 --> 00:53:55.432
too, but it may just be, you know,

00:53:55.773 --> 00:53:56.932
I feel like when we talk about these

00:53:57.012 --> 00:54:00.335
filtering softwares, it's extremely, uh,

00:54:02.438 --> 00:54:06.021
it's extremely specific to the platform.

00:54:06.300 --> 00:54:08.922
Like in this case, it was using eBPF,

00:54:09.003 --> 00:54:10.003
but, you know, on Windows,

00:54:10.043 --> 00:54:11.405
I'm sure they've got some whole other

00:54:11.465 --> 00:54:12.186
system, right?

00:54:12.927 --> 00:54:16.429
So, you know, making that basically,

00:54:17.731 --> 00:54:18.050
I guess,

00:54:18.251 --> 00:54:20.233
compatible with Little Snitch is probably

00:54:20.313 --> 00:54:21.914
a lot of work and, you know,

00:54:21.934 --> 00:54:23.295
they kind of have to port the entire

00:54:23.315 --> 00:54:23.775
thing over.

00:54:24.472 --> 00:54:25.693
which is kind of a pain,

00:54:26.373 --> 00:54:28.036
but I think it's good to see that

00:54:28.597 --> 00:54:31.981
a little snitch is expanding to other

00:54:32.001 --> 00:54:33.362
platforms and it's free,

00:54:33.461 --> 00:54:35.545
which I think was very generous, but.

00:54:37.454 --> 00:54:38.074
Yeah, I agree.

00:54:38.414 --> 00:54:39.994
I fully recognize that it's not an easy

00:54:40.014 --> 00:54:41.976
thing to go from platform to platform.

00:54:41.996 --> 00:54:42.896
And I mean, even Linux, right?

00:54:42.916 --> 00:54:44.175
You were saying some people on Fedora are

00:54:44.215 --> 00:54:45.836
having some issues getting it up and

00:54:45.876 --> 00:54:46.157
running.

00:54:46.197 --> 00:54:48.556
And hopefully since it is open source like

00:54:48.577 --> 00:54:48.737
that,

00:54:48.777 --> 00:54:50.856
hopefully people can do what they need to

00:54:50.876 --> 00:54:51.777
do to get it up and running.

00:54:51.818 --> 00:54:53.438
But yeah, it's certainly no small task.

00:54:53.458 --> 00:54:55.838
And I think that is really cool.

00:54:55.878 --> 00:54:56.378
And actually, yeah,

00:54:56.438 --> 00:54:57.938
I could never remember because I'm not a

00:54:57.958 --> 00:54:58.418
Mac user.

00:54:58.458 --> 00:54:59.699
I could never remember if Little Snitch or

00:54:59.739 --> 00:55:00.938
Lulu was the one that was free.

00:55:01.139 --> 00:55:03.440
And I didn't realize Little Snitch was the

00:55:03.480 --> 00:55:03.840
paid one.

00:55:03.860 --> 00:55:04.940
And I think that's really cool that

00:55:05.543 --> 00:55:06.443
this is free.

00:55:06.603 --> 00:55:09.603
So bummer that it's not fully open source,

00:55:09.623 --> 00:55:11.284
but I understand the logic of like,

00:55:11.304 --> 00:55:11.565
you know,

00:55:11.664 --> 00:55:13.644
I've been doing this for years and I

00:55:13.664 --> 00:55:15.085
don't want somebody to, twenty years,

00:55:15.125 --> 00:55:15.905
more than twenty years,

00:55:16.565 --> 00:55:18.005
and the algorithms and concepts are

00:55:18.025 --> 00:55:19.166
something we'd like to keep closed for the

00:55:19.186 --> 00:55:19.547
time being.

00:55:19.586 --> 00:55:20.166
Like, I get it.

00:55:20.487 --> 00:55:20.686
So.

00:55:21.746 --> 00:55:23.186
Yeah, I think also here,

00:55:23.226 --> 00:55:25.007
let's quickly cover this question we got

00:55:25.027 --> 00:55:26.947
from Cass K. So they asked,

00:55:27.027 --> 00:55:28.748
any tips you guys have for people who

00:55:28.789 --> 00:55:30.568
want to start making YouTube content

00:55:30.608 --> 00:55:31.590
related to privacy?

00:55:31.710 --> 00:55:33.230
All right, Nate, what do you got here?

00:55:35.298 --> 00:55:35.619
Yeah,

00:55:35.679 --> 00:55:38.360
so I just want to mention that I

00:55:38.380 --> 00:55:39.920
have my own website called The New Oil,

00:55:39.961 --> 00:55:40.302
which is...

00:55:43.063 --> 00:55:44.623
It's supposed to be like a very, very,

00:55:44.764 --> 00:55:46.646
very beginner level to privacy stuff.

00:55:46.686 --> 00:55:48.726
And my hope is that when people finish

00:55:48.746 --> 00:55:49.246
reading that,

00:55:49.266 --> 00:55:51.608
they'll move on to other resources like

00:55:51.628 --> 00:55:52.289
privacy guides.

00:55:52.349 --> 00:55:53.949
But over there,

00:55:54.030 --> 00:55:55.811
I do actually have a quick start guide

00:55:55.831 --> 00:55:57.572
on the front page for content creators.

00:55:58.193 --> 00:55:59.514
And the reason I'm referring you over

00:55:59.534 --> 00:56:00.733
there is because there is a lot of

00:56:00.753 --> 00:56:01.554
different stuff there.

00:56:01.614 --> 00:56:02.956
But it kind of goes over things like...

00:56:04.655 --> 00:56:05.476
it's really, I mean,

00:56:06.797 --> 00:56:07.958
as with everything in privacy, right?

00:56:07.978 --> 00:56:09.958
It's like, what, what do you want?

00:56:10.079 --> 00:56:11.840
What are your, your priorities and stuff?

00:56:12.000 --> 00:56:13.820
So for example, um,

00:56:13.880 --> 00:56:14.860
if you're going to be a Twitch streamer,

00:56:15.260 --> 00:56:17.202
you could totally just use your handle,

00:56:17.262 --> 00:56:17.501
right?

00:56:17.521 --> 00:56:19.362
You know, I mean like Markiplier that,

00:56:19.422 --> 00:56:21.103
that dude's obviously not his real name.

00:56:21.204 --> 00:56:23.184
It's derived from his real name, I think.

00:56:23.264 --> 00:56:24.326
But, um,

00:56:25.266 --> 00:56:26.367
A lot of YouTubers and stuff,

00:56:26.387 --> 00:56:28.088
they're known by their handles.

00:56:28.628 --> 00:56:30.248
But then if you're going to be a

00:56:30.289 --> 00:56:32.510
public figure, like a politician,

00:56:32.630 --> 00:56:33.650
a lot of them go by nicknames.

00:56:33.690 --> 00:56:35.610
Like Ted Cruz, his first name is Raphael.

00:56:36.251 --> 00:56:37.552
So things like that.

00:56:37.612 --> 00:56:38.913
It's just to keep in mind,

00:56:40.132 --> 00:56:41.893
what are you going for will determine a

00:56:41.934 --> 00:56:42.494
lot of those things.

00:56:42.554 --> 00:56:43.775
But I'm a big fan of things like

00:56:43.855 --> 00:56:45.715
using pseudonyms wherever possible.

00:56:45.795 --> 00:56:47.416
So again, handles, fake names.

00:56:48.682 --> 00:56:50.043
being mindful of your online presence.

00:56:50.063 --> 00:56:51.465
You don't have to plant your flag on

00:56:51.545 --> 00:56:53.146
every single website, but it may not hurt.

00:56:53.246 --> 00:56:54.467
And sometimes you may not need certain

00:56:54.487 --> 00:56:54.887
websites.

00:56:54.927 --> 00:56:56.668
Like I remember way,

00:56:56.708 --> 00:56:57.409
way back in the day,

00:56:57.429 --> 00:56:58.670
there's a band I follow, uh,

00:56:58.690 --> 00:56:59.351
Oh Sleeper actually.

00:57:00.072 --> 00:57:01.793
Um, they only ever had a Twitter account.

00:57:01.873 --> 00:57:03.295
They never signed up for Facebook.

00:57:03.315 --> 00:57:04.474
They never signed up for Instagram.

00:57:04.514 --> 00:57:05.596
Like you could only follow them on

00:57:05.635 --> 00:57:05.936
Twitter,

00:57:05.976 --> 00:57:07.797
which was slightly annoying as someone who

00:57:07.818 --> 00:57:08.858
didn't use Twitter at the time,

00:57:08.898 --> 00:57:09.378
but you know,

00:57:09.418 --> 00:57:10.840
like that's what they wanted to stick to.

00:57:10.900 --> 00:57:10.981
And

00:57:12.382 --> 00:57:13.061
Again, likewise,

00:57:13.121 --> 00:57:14.403
most bands probably don't need Twitch

00:57:14.443 --> 00:57:15.505
unless they're going to do live streaming

00:57:15.545 --> 00:57:15.925
nowadays.

00:57:15.965 --> 00:57:18.286
And maybe a lot of Twitch streamers don't

00:57:18.306 --> 00:57:18.648
need Twitter.

00:57:18.807 --> 00:57:21.289
So just kind of asking those questions,

00:57:21.369 --> 00:57:21.550
but

00:57:22.498 --> 00:57:22.818
Also,

00:57:22.918 --> 00:57:25.338
a lot of the technical tools that we

00:57:25.378 --> 00:57:26.579
recommend to privacy guides as well,

00:57:26.619 --> 00:57:27.820
things like email aliasing,

00:57:27.860 --> 00:57:28.681
password managers,

00:57:29.161 --> 00:57:30.541
basically securing your online account.

00:57:30.561 --> 00:57:32.463
Because I've also, again, I've seen bands,

00:57:32.862 --> 00:57:34.103
their Facebook gets hacked and all of a

00:57:34.123 --> 00:57:35.224
sudden they're spamming out like,

00:57:35.543 --> 00:57:37.744
twenty percent off Ray Bans or whatever at

00:57:37.764 --> 00:57:38.626
this sketchy link.

00:57:39.346 --> 00:57:39.885
And again,

00:57:39.925 --> 00:57:40.927
we just talked about this earlier,

00:57:40.967 --> 00:57:41.987
Facebook does not care.

00:57:42.106 --> 00:57:43.088
Unless you're Taylor Swift,

00:57:43.387 --> 00:57:44.188
they don't care.

00:57:44.467 --> 00:57:45.409
Sucks to suck, scrub.

00:57:45.449 --> 00:57:46.409
We're not going to help you get your

00:57:46.429 --> 00:57:46.889
account back.

00:57:48.349 --> 00:57:49.471
I actually read one earlier today,

00:57:49.490 --> 00:57:50.951
an article earlier today about how

00:57:51.110 --> 00:57:55.172
Discord's support system is still the

00:57:55.273 --> 00:57:57.474
dumbest thing that has ever been designed

00:57:57.514 --> 00:57:58.255
by a human being.

00:57:59.074 --> 00:58:00.315
I'm not sure a human being designed it.

00:58:00.356 --> 00:58:00.896
It's so dumb.

00:58:00.996 --> 00:58:01.896
But anyways, yeah.

00:58:01.936 --> 00:58:04.637
So like just, I don't know.

00:58:04.697 --> 00:58:06.237
I think I would check that out and

00:58:06.398 --> 00:58:07.398
definitely bounce any of my

00:58:07.438 --> 00:58:08.838
recommendations off privacy guides because

00:58:08.858 --> 00:58:09.960
I will admit privacy guides has much

00:58:09.980 --> 00:58:10.420
stricter,

00:58:10.440 --> 00:58:13.541
I don't want to say vetting process,

00:58:14.001 --> 00:58:15.541
criteria for a lot of their

00:58:15.581 --> 00:58:16.302
recommendations.

00:58:16.523 --> 00:58:17.123
So I mean,

00:58:18.472 --> 00:58:18.793
I don't know.

00:58:18.853 --> 00:58:20.414
Yeah, I would check both of those out.

00:58:20.454 --> 00:58:22.034
I think they're really good resources

00:58:22.074 --> 00:58:23.315
that'll get you started, hopefully.

00:58:24.817 --> 00:58:26.557
Yeah, I just want to add as well,

00:58:26.777 --> 00:58:28.579
I think there's some parts that kind of

00:58:28.619 --> 00:58:31.219
go... I haven't read your streamer guide,

00:58:31.239 --> 00:58:32.800
so maybe I'm just repeating what's already

00:58:32.840 --> 00:58:33.461
on the page.

00:58:33.581 --> 00:58:36.623
But I think stuff that's kind of important

00:58:36.643 --> 00:58:37.943
to establish early on,

00:58:38.405 --> 00:58:39.525
are you going to show your face?

00:58:40.565 --> 00:58:42.686
I mean, that is kind of important, right?

00:58:43.807 --> 00:58:44.088
I think...

00:58:45.503 --> 00:58:46.784
You can kind of see what I'm doing

00:58:46.824 --> 00:58:47.043
here.

00:58:47.063 --> 00:58:47.224
Like,

00:58:47.284 --> 00:58:48.724
I don't really want to show my face.

00:58:49.686 --> 00:58:51.146
I'm sure someone could find what I look

00:58:51.186 --> 00:58:51.467
like,

00:58:51.527 --> 00:58:56.389
but it's just a layer of privacy on

00:58:56.409 --> 00:58:57.110
that aspect.

00:58:57.811 --> 00:58:59.311
People aren't going to recognize you in

00:58:59.331 --> 00:59:00.233
the street or whatever,

00:59:00.413 --> 00:59:01.574
or people aren't going to be able to

00:59:02.744 --> 00:59:03.965
immediately know who you are.

00:59:04.664 --> 00:59:06.085
So that is a benefit too.

00:59:06.186 --> 00:59:09.106
And I think also thinking about things

00:59:09.126 --> 00:59:09.726
that you share,

00:59:09.987 --> 00:59:11.867
being very mindful of things that you

00:59:11.887 --> 00:59:14.027
share, because, you know,

00:59:14.168 --> 00:59:17.148
you take a picture of the room that

00:59:17.168 --> 00:59:17.568
you're in,

00:59:17.688 --> 00:59:21.128
someone could analyze the texture of the

00:59:21.168 --> 00:59:22.269
roof or something,

00:59:22.429 --> 00:59:26.010
find rental property stuff and analyze and

00:59:26.050 --> 00:59:27.550
work out where you're living or something

00:59:27.590 --> 00:59:27.951
like that.

00:59:27.971 --> 00:59:29.170
You know, people are pretty creepy.

00:59:30.092 --> 00:59:31.231
So I think being aware of

00:59:32.402 --> 00:59:33.503
you know, what you're sharing,

00:59:34.905 --> 00:59:36.807
how it can be used to find you

00:59:38.471 --> 00:59:41.554
being very deliberate about posting stuff.

00:59:42.255 --> 00:59:43.876
But I think it's definitely a personal

00:59:43.916 --> 00:59:44.958
preference whether you want to show your

00:59:44.998 --> 00:59:47.922
face or even show anything about you.

00:59:48.902 --> 00:59:49.804
You can certainly be

00:59:50.713 --> 00:59:51.293
faceless.

00:59:51.873 --> 00:59:53.275
There's plenty of channels that do that

00:59:53.514 --> 00:59:55.835
and pretty successfully, I'd say.

00:59:55.875 --> 00:59:56.554
So, you know,

00:59:56.994 --> 00:59:58.076
I think it's definitely worth thinking

00:59:58.096 --> 00:59:58.795
about at least.

00:59:58.896 --> 01:00:01.815
But I hope those tips were somewhat

01:00:01.835 --> 01:00:02.195
helpful.

01:00:03.516 --> 01:00:05.157
We try and answer people's questions in

01:00:05.177 --> 01:00:05.677
the chat.

01:00:06.577 --> 01:00:08.197
There was another question here from

01:00:08.277 --> 01:00:09.117
Plants McGee,

01:00:09.137 --> 01:00:11.998
which I'm not really sure about what it

01:00:12.057 --> 01:00:12.599
means.

01:00:13.398 --> 01:00:15.139
So what's the deal with Twitter, Sydney?

01:00:15.239 --> 01:00:16.018
They just left.

01:00:16.699 --> 01:00:19.239
So what is this referring to exactly?

01:00:19.887 --> 01:00:21.987
They're referring to the EFF just left

01:00:22.027 --> 01:00:22.387
Twitter.

01:00:23.509 --> 01:00:24.268
Real quick, I do want to say,

01:00:24.349 --> 01:00:25.730
I didn't mention the face thing and I

01:00:25.769 --> 01:00:26.710
really should add that because that's a

01:00:26.731 --> 01:00:27.251
really good point.

01:00:28.010 --> 01:00:29.231
I've been just watching random YouTube

01:00:29.251 --> 01:00:32.054
videos lately about dinosaurs and space

01:00:32.134 --> 01:00:33.715
because I will forever be five years old

01:00:33.735 --> 01:00:34.074
at heart.

01:00:34.594 --> 01:00:35.755
And yeah, a lot of those...

01:00:35.775 --> 01:00:36.775
So it's not just a privacy thing.

01:00:36.815 --> 01:00:39.097
A lot of those channels are faceless too.

01:00:39.297 --> 01:00:40.757
And I'm actually sitting here thinking,

01:00:40.777 --> 01:00:41.239
I'm like, man,

01:00:41.278 --> 01:00:42.498
maybe I should do more faceless videos

01:00:42.518 --> 01:00:43.619
because I bet they can pump those out

01:00:43.659 --> 01:00:44.079
real quick.

01:00:44.159 --> 01:00:46.742
But yeah, going back to the question,

01:00:46.862 --> 01:00:47.961
the EFF left Twitter.

01:00:48.762 --> 01:00:48.782
I...

01:00:50.079 --> 01:00:51.061
I have personal opinions,

01:00:51.101 --> 01:00:52.121
but all I'm going to say is go

01:00:52.161 --> 01:00:52.902
check their blog post.

01:00:53.342 --> 01:00:55.105
They laid it out in very plain numbers

01:00:55.164 --> 01:00:57.507
where basically they said – you can tell

01:00:57.628 --> 01:00:58.409
I agree with their decision.

01:00:58.449 --> 01:01:00.431
But basically they said that they're just

01:01:00.431 --> 01:01:01.652
– they're not reaching people,

01:01:01.851 --> 01:01:04.094
and they only have so many resources,

01:01:04.173 --> 01:01:05.635
and they've decided their resources are

01:01:05.655 --> 01:01:06.737
better spent elsewhere.

01:01:06.896 --> 01:01:07.918
So you can disagree with them.

01:01:08.159 --> 01:01:08.579
That's fine.

01:01:09.039 --> 01:01:09.900
Free country for now.

01:01:09.960 --> 01:01:10.721
You're welcome to do that.

01:01:11.242 --> 01:01:12.523
But that's their logic.

01:01:12.922 --> 01:01:13.503
So –

01:01:14.701 --> 01:01:15.800
I think I'm just going to share my

01:01:15.840 --> 01:01:16.621
thoughts on this.

01:01:17.021 --> 01:01:18.621
Obviously these, these are my thoughts,

01:01:18.681 --> 01:01:18.862
not,

01:01:19.342 --> 01:01:21.043
not related to privacy guides as an

01:01:21.083 --> 01:01:21.762
organization,

01:01:21.822 --> 01:01:24.523
but I think the platform itself has kind

01:01:24.563 --> 01:01:26.344
of become pretty toxic.

01:01:27.023 --> 01:01:28.324
I think a lot of people are complaining

01:01:28.344 --> 01:01:29.664
about it kind of becoming a bit of

01:01:29.704 --> 01:01:31.264
a,

01:01:31.485 --> 01:01:33.324
an echo chamber for like conservative

01:01:33.344 --> 01:01:34.646
voices and stuff.

01:01:35.186 --> 01:01:36.846
I think that's not great.

01:01:37.226 --> 01:01:37.686
It's definitely,

01:01:37.965 --> 01:01:40.007
the platform's definitely changed and

01:01:40.027 --> 01:01:40.126
it's,

01:01:41.467 --> 01:01:43.248
in a lot of ways became worse.

01:01:43.387 --> 01:01:44.929
I think we're seeing more and more people

01:01:44.989 --> 01:01:46.309
leaving because, you know,

01:01:46.568 --> 01:01:50.469
it is kind of a platform that allows

01:01:51.429 --> 01:01:52.630
in, in a lot of countries,

01:01:52.670 --> 01:01:53.911
I would say hate speech,

01:01:54.411 --> 01:01:56.271
maybe not in the US because the laws

01:01:56.291 --> 01:01:59.952
there are a little bit looser, but yeah,

01:01:59.992 --> 01:02:01.992
I can kind of understand not wanting to

01:02:02.092 --> 01:02:03.452
be on a platform like that.

01:02:03.572 --> 01:02:04.353
And I think, you know,

01:02:05.528 --> 01:02:06.088
In our case,

01:02:06.148 --> 01:02:07.949
Privacy Guides is still on Twitter posting

01:02:07.989 --> 01:02:08.369
stuff.

01:02:08.809 --> 01:02:11.331
I think we are getting some traction.

01:02:11.411 --> 01:02:14.432
So maybe our strategy is different to that

01:02:14.492 --> 01:02:16.153
of the EFF,

01:02:16.733 --> 01:02:18.315
but we're still getting quite a lot of

01:02:18.414 --> 01:02:19.195
traction with that.

01:02:19.735 --> 01:02:21.976
I think it's important to reach people no

01:02:21.996 --> 01:02:23.157
matter what platform they're on.

01:02:23.677 --> 01:02:26.677
So, you know, in a lot of cases,

01:02:26.699 --> 01:02:27.918
we're going to be on all these crappy

01:02:27.938 --> 01:02:28.498
platforms.

01:02:28.579 --> 01:02:31.139
Doesn't mean we support the platform or we

01:02:31.181 --> 01:02:31.541
want to...

01:02:35.302 --> 01:02:40.445
Doesn't mean we want to make people move

01:02:40.465 --> 01:02:42.007
to better platforms like Mastodon.

01:02:42.047 --> 01:02:45.429
We recommend different ones that people

01:02:45.449 --> 01:02:46.371
should move to instead.

01:02:46.490 --> 01:02:49.934
But I think you have to meet people

01:02:49.954 --> 01:02:50.614
where they are.

01:02:50.914 --> 01:02:52.916
And if we just stopped posting on all

01:02:52.936 --> 01:02:53.597
these platforms,

01:02:53.637 --> 01:02:56.378
we wouldn't be reaching as many people and

01:02:56.619 --> 01:02:59.081
converting them to believing different

01:02:59.121 --> 01:02:59.400
things,

01:02:59.440 --> 01:03:01.402
like that X is a bad platform and

01:03:01.443 --> 01:03:02.302
invades your privacy.

01:03:03.518 --> 01:03:04.880
Same thing Jonas said here.

01:03:04.900 --> 01:03:06.101
It doesn't make a ton of sense to

01:03:06.141 --> 01:03:06.983
me to leave X,

01:03:07.023 --> 01:03:08.465
but not Facebook or TikTok,

01:03:08.704 --> 01:03:11.228
but shrugging emoji.

01:03:11.248 --> 01:03:13.429
I think it's definitely like a personal

01:03:13.471 --> 01:03:13.990
choice.

01:03:15.552 --> 01:03:17.594
If the analytics said that they weren't,

01:03:17.856 --> 01:03:18.215
I mean,

01:03:18.255 --> 01:03:19.717
it doesn't really make that much sense in

01:03:19.757 --> 01:03:20.257
my opinion,

01:03:20.297 --> 01:03:20.679
because

01:03:23.153 --> 01:03:25.096
we have all these multi-posting tools.

01:03:25.155 --> 01:03:27.878
Like, for instance, our team here, Nate,

01:03:28.298 --> 01:03:30.179
I, me, and Jonah, we're basically,

01:03:30.260 --> 01:03:31.842
a lot of our posting is through Buffer.

01:03:32.603 --> 01:03:34.344
And all it is is just ticking another

01:03:34.364 --> 01:03:37.246
box to send it to another platform.

01:03:37.266 --> 01:03:37.367
Like,

01:03:37.407 --> 01:03:39.208
we're not specifically creating anything

01:03:39.248 --> 01:03:41.731
for a specific platform.

01:03:41.831 --> 01:03:44.494
So, I mean, if those platforms

01:03:45.764 --> 01:03:47.447
I mean, we can debate all day,

01:03:47.748 --> 01:03:50.773
like how bad X is as a platform.

01:03:51.353 --> 01:03:52.996
We can debate all day how bad Facebook

01:03:53.077 --> 01:03:56.603
is and TikTok, but I still think,

01:03:56.983 --> 01:03:57.224
you know,

01:03:57.264 --> 01:03:59.547
we post on all those platforms because we

01:03:59.567 --> 01:04:00.309
wanna be able to reach

01:04:01.550 --> 01:04:03.271
these people because you know everyone

01:04:03.311 --> 01:04:05.851
deserves privacy not just everyone on

01:04:05.891 --> 01:04:08.713
mastodon um so and especially because

01:04:08.753 --> 01:04:11.875
these people are probably less aware of

01:04:11.894 --> 01:04:13.235
the issue that's why they're on those

01:04:13.275 --> 01:04:16.396
platforms in the first place so i can

01:04:16.436 --> 01:04:17.617
kind of understand from like an

01:04:17.777 --> 01:04:19.918
ideological perspective like if you really

01:04:19.938 --> 01:04:21.679
don't like being on a platform that kind

01:04:21.699 --> 01:04:23.820
of amplifies conservative voices i can

01:04:23.860 --> 01:04:25.141
kind of understand why you may not want

01:04:25.161 --> 01:04:26.282
to be on a platform like that where

01:04:26.302 --> 01:04:28.463
you get harassed but

01:04:29.559 --> 01:04:31.181
I think from an organizational

01:04:31.201 --> 01:04:31.782
perspective,

01:04:31.882 --> 01:04:34.523
I think I'm not quite sure if I

01:04:34.583 --> 01:04:37.126
agree with this because it is kind of

01:04:37.306 --> 01:04:42.750
easy to cross post and I can respect

01:04:42.809 --> 01:04:43.349
the decision,

01:04:44.050 --> 01:04:45.711
but I'm not sure if I agree with

01:04:45.771 --> 01:04:47.012
it particularly.

01:04:47.233 --> 01:04:52.376
But yeah, that's kind of my thoughts.

01:04:52.396 --> 01:04:53.056
Okay.

01:04:54.195 --> 01:04:55.076
I don't really have much to add.

01:04:55.275 --> 01:04:56.175
I think that was a good point about

01:04:56.215 --> 01:04:57.717
buffer, but I don't know.

01:04:57.976 --> 01:04:59.416
I don't, I don't have a,

01:04:59.677 --> 01:05:00.117
what do they say?

01:05:00.177 --> 01:05:01.137
I don't have a dog in this fight.

01:05:01.277 --> 01:05:03.159
So it's kind of a messed up saying

01:05:03.199 --> 01:05:03.858
now that I think about it,

01:05:04.518 --> 01:05:05.079
don't fight dogs.

01:05:07.429 --> 01:05:07.829
On that note,

01:05:07.849 --> 01:05:09.690
I think we're going to move into a

01:05:09.731 --> 01:05:13.112
story about the FBI extracting a suspect's

01:05:13.132 --> 01:05:14.994
deleted signal messages saved in the

01:05:15.193 --> 01:05:16.715
iPhone notification database.

01:05:16.735 --> 01:05:17.675
So I'm not going to scroll on this

01:05:17.735 --> 01:05:18.856
one too much because this is actually a

01:05:18.896 --> 01:05:19.436
paid post.

01:05:20.597 --> 01:05:22.278
But this comes from four or four media.

01:05:22.518 --> 01:05:23.300
Highly recommend.

01:05:23.400 --> 01:05:24.721
It's totally worth it, in my opinion.

01:05:25.101 --> 01:05:25.961
They do great reporting.

01:05:26.702 --> 01:05:28.943
But Jonah did say in the chat that

01:05:28.963 --> 01:05:30.405
you felt like this is a little bit

01:05:30.425 --> 01:05:31.445
of a nothing burger here.

01:05:31.626 --> 01:05:32.927
And I...

01:05:34.422 --> 01:05:35.264
I halfway agree.

01:05:35.583 --> 01:05:36.806
Um, cause you know, it's the,

01:05:36.826 --> 01:05:38.007
the headline kind of says it all,

01:05:38.588 --> 01:05:40.889
but I think it's worth talking about

01:05:40.951 --> 01:05:42.052
because it kind of points out,

01:05:42.092 --> 01:05:43.492
they said further down in the article that

01:05:43.532 --> 01:05:43.974
this, like,

01:05:45.416 --> 01:05:47.918
this just kind of amplifies how difficult

01:05:47.998 --> 01:05:48.438
it can be.

01:05:48.579 --> 01:05:48.880
Actually,

01:05:48.940 --> 01:05:50.581
let me see if I can find it

01:05:50.621 --> 01:05:50.862
here,

01:05:50.902 --> 01:05:53.284
but they basically said it just points out

01:05:53.324 --> 01:05:54.846
how difficult it can be to, um,

01:05:55.831 --> 01:05:57.552
to think about every possible angle of

01:05:57.572 --> 01:05:58.152
your OPSEC,

01:05:59.134 --> 01:06:00.494
especially when it really matters this

01:06:00.534 --> 01:06:01.014
much, you know?

01:06:01.074 --> 01:06:02.815
So like last year in June,

01:06:02.856 --> 01:06:05.318
we found out that, which I mean,

01:06:05.398 --> 01:06:06.719
the more technical people who know this

01:06:06.739 --> 01:06:07.639
kind of stuff, which remember,

01:06:07.699 --> 01:06:09.320
not everybody is super technical,

01:06:09.820 --> 01:06:10.521
but yeah,

01:06:12.023 --> 01:06:15.123
We found out last year that because push

01:06:15.164 --> 01:06:16.784
notifications are usually not encrypted,

01:06:17.425 --> 01:06:19.244
Apple and Google can see them,

01:06:19.485 --> 01:06:21.005
which probably was not a shocker to most

01:06:21.025 --> 01:06:21.286
people.

01:06:21.746 --> 01:06:22.885
But also, basically,

01:06:23.226 --> 01:06:24.666
the way that they're registered to make

01:06:24.686 --> 01:06:26.286
sure they get to the right device and

01:06:26.327 --> 01:06:30.809
stuff, it's... Basically...

01:06:32.086 --> 01:06:33.608
It's another way that police can get your

01:06:33.628 --> 01:06:34.128
data, right?

01:06:34.168 --> 01:06:35.489
Police can go to Apple and Google and

01:06:35.510 --> 01:06:36.811
they can subpoena you for your data.

01:06:37.291 --> 01:06:40.614
And so we're really big fans of services

01:06:40.655 --> 01:06:41.576
like Tudor, for example,

01:06:41.615 --> 01:06:42.996
does not rely on Google for push

01:06:43.016 --> 01:06:44.297
notifications on Android.

01:06:45.179 --> 01:06:45.778
Signal, I think,

01:06:45.878 --> 01:06:47.360
also has their own implementation.

01:06:47.780 --> 01:06:49.121
Proton does rely on Google,

01:06:49.161 --> 01:06:50.023
but they encrypt it.

01:06:50.182 --> 01:06:51.503
So there's not really anything useful

01:06:51.523 --> 01:06:53.005
there, although there is still metadata,

01:06:53.045 --> 01:06:53.945
which is worth noting.

01:06:55.146 --> 01:06:55.407
But...

01:06:56.800 --> 01:06:58.902
And now we're learning it's still even

01:06:58.961 --> 01:07:00.382
more complicated than that, right?

01:07:00.402 --> 01:07:02.985
Because basically what happened is they

01:07:03.005 --> 01:07:04.766
arrested somebody and they were able to,

01:07:04.806 --> 01:07:04.987
you know,

01:07:05.007 --> 01:07:06.288
they ran the Celebrite or whatever,

01:07:06.347 --> 01:07:07.168
whichever device it was.

01:07:07.208 --> 01:07:08.289
They ran the forensic tools on the

01:07:08.329 --> 01:07:08.969
person's phone,

01:07:09.329 --> 01:07:10.530
which was an iPhone in this case.

01:07:11.211 --> 01:07:12.773
And this person had already deleted

01:07:12.813 --> 01:07:13.132
Signal.

01:07:13.934 --> 01:07:16.014
I believe they even had disappearing

01:07:16.054 --> 01:07:16.715
messages enabled,

01:07:16.775 --> 01:07:17.496
but don't quote me on that.

01:07:17.556 --> 01:07:18.677
I feel like I read that in this

01:07:18.717 --> 01:07:19.217
post somewhere.

01:07:20.045 --> 01:07:22.592
And the police were still able to extract

01:07:23.233 --> 01:07:25.619
some of the messages because the

01:07:25.679 --> 01:07:27.943
notification history was stored on the

01:07:27.963 --> 01:07:29.067
device.

01:07:29.286 --> 01:07:29.909
And, um,

01:07:31.481 --> 01:07:33.222
Yeah,

01:07:33.362 --> 01:07:34.543
I did not see that coming personally.

01:07:35.724 --> 01:07:37.346
So it is worth noting that because these

01:07:37.405 --> 01:07:41.528
are device notifications that we only got,

01:07:41.648 --> 01:07:42.750
or they only got, I should say,

01:07:42.889 --> 01:07:43.590
half the,

01:07:46.333 --> 01:07:47.534
I can't word today and I apologize.

01:07:47.914 --> 01:07:49.355
They only got half of the conversation,

01:07:49.375 --> 01:07:49.514
right?

01:07:49.554 --> 01:07:50.655
They got the incoming stuff.

01:07:51.195 --> 01:07:52.436
They did not get everything, of course.

01:07:53.018 --> 01:07:55.139
And I personally am a little bit unclear

01:07:55.179 --> 01:07:56.420
on exactly how this would work.

01:07:56.460 --> 01:07:57.021
Like for example,

01:07:57.061 --> 01:07:58.481
how long do these notifications stay

01:07:58.521 --> 01:07:58.722
there?

01:08:00.204 --> 01:08:01.746
It sounds like this is a like a

01:08:01.826 --> 01:08:03.568
volatile memory kind of thing like RAM.

01:08:03.628 --> 01:08:05.050
So would rebooting the phone get rid of

01:08:05.070 --> 01:08:05.190
them?

01:08:05.731 --> 01:08:07.052
I'm assuming not because I think if these

01:08:07.072 --> 01:08:08.494
people were smart enough to use signal and

01:08:08.514 --> 01:08:10.016
disappearing messages and to delete

01:08:10.036 --> 01:08:10.376
signal,

01:08:10.416 --> 01:08:12.619
then they probably rebooted their phone as

01:08:12.659 --> 01:08:12.900
well.

01:08:13.460 --> 01:08:14.623
Or maybe not since they were able to

01:08:14.702 --> 01:08:15.684
forensically examine the phone.

01:08:15.724 --> 01:08:16.666
I really can't say for sure.

01:08:16.706 --> 01:08:16.826
But

01:08:17.492 --> 01:08:18.953
I just, personally,

01:08:20.354 --> 01:08:22.755
I have some technical questions like that.

01:08:22.814 --> 01:08:25.456
But I think the big reminder here that

01:08:25.515 --> 01:08:26.697
I thought was interesting I wanted to talk

01:08:26.716 --> 01:08:32.279
about was just the reminder to be mindful

01:08:32.340 --> 01:08:33.161
of your notifications.

01:08:33.280 --> 01:08:34.541
One thing I really appreciate about

01:08:34.601 --> 01:08:34.942
Signal,

01:08:35.242 --> 01:08:37.943
and I know other apps do this too

01:08:37.962 --> 01:08:38.684
to various extents.

01:08:39.144 --> 01:08:40.465
Privacy apps tend to be a lot better

01:08:40.484 --> 01:08:41.145
about this, of course,

01:08:41.164 --> 01:08:42.305
as opposed to something like Discord.

01:08:42.345 --> 01:08:45.067
But Signal lets you get pretty granular in

01:08:45.127 --> 01:08:45.847
terms of like,

01:08:46.969 --> 01:08:47.789
I can mute this chat.

01:08:47.869 --> 01:08:49.030
I can mute this chat for an hour.

01:08:49.110 --> 01:08:50.032
I can mute it for a day.

01:08:50.131 --> 01:08:51.273
I can mute it indefinitely.

01:08:52.654 --> 01:08:54.534
I can select notifications.

01:08:54.595 --> 01:08:56.737
It says here that includes name, content,

01:08:57.136 --> 01:08:59.179
name only, or no name in content.

01:08:59.720 --> 01:09:01.020
And so this is actually what I used

01:09:01.041 --> 01:09:02.242
to do ever since I found out about

01:09:02.261 --> 01:09:03.181
that story from last year.

01:09:04.063 --> 01:09:05.864
I have Signal set to send me just

01:09:05.925 --> 01:09:07.006
a notification that says Signal.

01:09:07.786 --> 01:09:08.667
And then from there,

01:09:08.886 --> 01:09:10.609
I use notification profiles

01:09:11.515 --> 01:09:12.377
to kind of manage things.

01:09:12.396 --> 01:09:14.257
So like when I was at work in

01:09:14.297 --> 01:09:15.158
my last job,

01:09:15.179 --> 01:09:16.979
which was a more traditional nine to five

01:09:17.000 --> 01:09:19.002
sort of job, I, you know,

01:09:19.021 --> 01:09:19.542
in the sense of like,

01:09:19.582 --> 01:09:20.563
I can't be on my phone during the

01:09:20.582 --> 01:09:21.344
day and stuff like that.

01:09:22.144 --> 01:09:24.065
I had a notification profile that would

01:09:24.086 --> 01:09:26.347
start at working hours and at end of

01:09:26.387 --> 01:09:27.649
day, which was never really end of day.

01:09:27.668 --> 01:09:28.670
But at that point I'm like, whatever,

01:09:28.710 --> 01:09:29.229
we're staying late.

01:09:29.270 --> 01:09:29.649
I don't care.

01:09:30.291 --> 01:09:31.532
And during that time,

01:09:31.712 --> 01:09:32.893
pretty much the only notification that

01:09:32.912 --> 01:09:34.073
would come through would be my wife in

01:09:34.113 --> 01:09:34.975
case there was an emergency.

01:09:35.734 --> 01:09:36.735
And so at that point,

01:09:37.296 --> 01:09:38.637
I don't need the notification content,

01:09:38.677 --> 01:09:38.877
right?

01:09:38.898 --> 01:09:39.979
Because I know exactly who it is.

01:09:39.998 --> 01:09:41.300
It's the only person that the notification

01:09:41.319 --> 01:09:41.819
will get through.

01:09:42.421 --> 01:09:43.721
And likewise, when I go to sleep,

01:09:44.502 --> 01:09:47.564
my wife in case I'm traveling and my

01:09:47.604 --> 01:09:48.586
sister in case of emergency.

01:09:48.605 --> 01:09:49.247
And I think that's it.

01:09:49.287 --> 01:09:50.608
Now, I have one local friend, too,

01:09:50.807 --> 01:09:51.548
in case of emergency.

01:09:52.172 --> 01:09:53.073
And those are the only people,

01:09:53.113 --> 01:09:53.594
even though I try,

01:09:54.154 --> 01:09:55.015
lately I've been doing a good job,

01:09:55.034 --> 01:09:55.956
but usually I try not to sleep with

01:09:55.975 --> 01:09:56.636
the phone in the bedroom.

01:09:56.676 --> 01:09:57.917
But you know what I mean?

01:09:57.938 --> 01:09:58.177
It's like,

01:09:59.137 --> 01:10:00.699
I'm able to craft these very specific

01:10:00.739 --> 01:10:01.600
notification profiles.

01:10:01.619 --> 01:10:02.661
And even now here at Privacy Guides,

01:10:03.521 --> 01:10:04.922
I do have working hours where I'm like

01:10:05.042 --> 01:10:06.463
at work and I try to focus.

01:10:06.864 --> 01:10:08.466
So I've got everything that isn't, again,

01:10:08.546 --> 01:10:10.887
like my wife and my sister and then

01:10:11.047 --> 01:10:12.448
all the Privacy Guides people,

01:10:12.828 --> 01:10:13.710
they're the only ones that the

01:10:13.729 --> 01:10:15.490
notifications go through so that I don't

01:10:15.511 --> 01:10:16.671
get distracted by other people.

01:10:16.851 --> 01:10:17.632
And yeah.

01:10:18.153 --> 01:10:21.194
I think trying to figure out how to

01:10:21.234 --> 01:10:22.715
make a device work for you in that

01:10:22.755 --> 01:10:24.296
sense, you know, somebody, I think I saw,

01:10:24.515 --> 01:10:25.497
I think it was in the privacy guides

01:10:25.516 --> 01:10:26.796
forum when people were talking about this

01:10:26.817 --> 01:10:27.118
story,

01:10:27.137 --> 01:10:29.219
or it may have been in the comments

01:10:29.238 --> 01:10:30.038
of this actual article,

01:10:30.059 --> 01:10:32.100
but somebody mentioned like changing the

01:10:32.119 --> 01:10:33.421
ringtones, you know,

01:10:33.980 --> 01:10:35.702
before I started using these notification

01:10:35.742 --> 01:10:36.101
profiles,

01:10:36.141 --> 01:10:37.462
that was something I did is my wife

01:10:37.502 --> 01:10:38.762
had a different ringtone than everyone

01:10:38.823 --> 01:10:39.043
else.

01:10:39.463 --> 01:10:41.904
So that if I got a, you know,

01:10:41.925 --> 01:10:44.065
a notification, I would know, is it her,

01:10:44.185 --> 01:10:45.287
do I need to check this or can

01:10:45.327 --> 01:10:45.867
I just ignore it?

01:10:46.613 --> 01:10:47.832
And so, yeah,

01:10:49.953 --> 01:10:51.173
it's definitely something to be mindful

01:10:51.234 --> 01:10:51.293
of.

01:10:51.354 --> 01:10:53.274
And something else that kind of came up

01:10:53.295 --> 01:10:53.395
here,

01:10:53.414 --> 01:10:54.755
I'm looking at the comments now on this,

01:10:54.795 --> 01:10:56.154
is on iPhones,

01:10:56.956 --> 01:10:58.475
if the calls show in recent,

01:10:58.515 --> 01:11:00.256
that will show up in the actual phone

01:11:00.355 --> 01:11:00.957
app log.

01:11:02.317 --> 01:11:04.698
On both iPhone and Android,

01:11:04.717 --> 01:11:05.877
there's always relay calls,

01:11:05.917 --> 01:11:07.417
so your IP address isn't exposed.

01:11:07.997 --> 01:11:09.118
Slight quality trade-off,

01:11:09.179 --> 01:11:11.118
but if you're a high-risk person or if

01:11:11.139 --> 01:11:12.158
you live in an area where you've always

01:11:12.179 --> 01:11:12.760
got a good signal,

01:11:12.779 --> 01:11:13.659
it's probably not a big deal.

01:11:14.831 --> 01:11:15.832
So just things like that to keep in

01:11:15.851 --> 01:11:16.032
mind.

01:11:16.091 --> 01:11:18.073
But one last thing I do want to

01:11:18.113 --> 01:11:19.592
circle back to when Jonah said, he's like,

01:11:19.712 --> 01:11:21.154
this is kind of a nothing burger because

01:11:21.213 --> 01:11:23.175
Signal doesn't encrypt their own local

01:11:23.194 --> 01:11:24.234
database in the first place.

01:11:24.775 --> 01:11:25.996
And I think that's a valid point.

01:11:26.095 --> 01:11:27.837
I mean, I love Signal.

01:11:27.957 --> 01:11:28.716
I recommend Signal.

01:11:29.658 --> 01:11:30.677
It's very user-friendly.

01:11:30.757 --> 01:11:31.359
It's very easy.

01:11:31.399 --> 01:11:32.298
It's cross-platform.

01:11:32.319 --> 01:11:33.479
It's got all kinds of shiny little

01:11:33.520 --> 01:11:35.159
features that people enjoy and makes them

01:11:35.180 --> 01:11:35.980
more likely to use it.

01:11:36.581 --> 01:11:38.742
But I think it is important to note

01:11:39.301 --> 01:11:40.502
that there is no perfect tool,

01:11:40.842 --> 01:11:41.542
whether that's Signal,

01:11:41.563 --> 01:11:42.384
whether that's SimpleX,

01:11:42.404 --> 01:11:42.863
whether that's

01:11:43.644 --> 01:11:45.385
Um, you know, whatever messenger,

01:11:45.404 --> 01:11:46.126
whether that's email,

01:11:46.166 --> 01:11:48.027
email itself is incredibly imperfect,

01:11:48.067 --> 01:11:49.768
which we did explicitly mentioned that in

01:11:49.787 --> 01:11:50.908
our latest video about email.

01:11:51.449 --> 01:11:52.550
So, you know, it's,

01:11:52.689 --> 01:11:54.652
it's looking at your threat model.

01:11:54.712 --> 01:11:55.832
It's looking at what you need from a

01:11:55.872 --> 01:11:57.833
tool and it's understanding what the

01:11:57.873 --> 01:11:59.335
limitations are and how to either

01:11:59.734 --> 01:12:01.296
eliminate them, mitigate them,

01:12:01.837 --> 01:12:02.516
work around them.

01:12:03.018 --> 01:12:03.738
Cause then I'm not gonna lie.

01:12:03.757 --> 01:12:04.479
My, my, um,

01:12:05.359 --> 01:12:06.359
One of my thoughts I had today when

01:12:06.378 --> 01:12:07.560
I was thinking about this story is like,

01:12:08.159 --> 01:12:09.460
I can't control other people's phones.

01:12:09.500 --> 01:12:09.701
You know,

01:12:09.860 --> 01:12:11.400
I have my notifications set not to do

01:12:11.421 --> 01:12:11.640
things.

01:12:11.961 --> 01:12:13.061
But now when I text people,

01:12:13.702 --> 01:12:16.262
my notifications are on that device.

01:12:16.582 --> 01:12:17.662
And that's just something to be mindful

01:12:17.722 --> 01:12:17.802
of.

01:12:17.962 --> 01:12:22.204
So yeah, kind of a shorter story,

01:12:22.244 --> 01:12:23.524
I think today, but you know,

01:12:23.744 --> 01:12:25.105
it's a pretty quick takeaway.

01:12:25.345 --> 01:12:26.305
So I don't know if you had any

01:12:26.525 --> 01:12:27.726
thoughts on that one that you wanted to

01:12:27.747 --> 01:12:28.346
share, Jordan.

01:12:30.002 --> 01:12:30.503
Yeah, I mean,

01:12:30.564 --> 01:12:32.105
I think you brought up some great points

01:12:32.145 --> 01:12:32.445
there.

01:12:32.485 --> 01:12:33.106
Like, you know,

01:12:33.346 --> 01:12:36.329
there's ways to at least somewhat protect

01:12:36.551 --> 01:12:37.671
this on your end.

01:12:37.712 --> 01:12:38.153
Like you said,

01:12:38.172 --> 01:12:40.695
the settings in Signal itself.

01:12:40.775 --> 01:12:41.617
I almost wonder though,

01:12:43.755 --> 01:12:46.056
you could almost disable notifications

01:12:46.277 --> 01:12:47.978
just in general, you know,

01:12:47.997 --> 01:12:48.958
no notifications.

01:12:49.059 --> 01:12:49.639
And then, you know,

01:12:49.679 --> 01:12:51.301
there wouldn't be a database where

01:12:51.341 --> 01:12:53.981
anything would be stored in this case.

01:12:54.042 --> 01:12:55.363
But, you know,

01:12:55.382 --> 01:12:57.864
maybe that's kind of problematic for

01:12:57.904 --> 01:12:58.525
people to do.

01:12:58.666 --> 01:13:00.087
But there's also the case where

01:13:01.818 --> 01:13:03.899
know there's at least on android there is

01:13:03.939 --> 01:13:06.619
the ability to enable notification history

01:13:06.920 --> 01:13:10.261
so it can save notifications that's off by

01:13:10.301 --> 01:13:12.822
default but it's another thing to check um

01:13:12.862 --> 01:13:14.521
to see if you have that enabled definitely

01:13:14.561 --> 01:13:16.422
disable that i don't think that's

01:13:16.483 --> 01:13:20.904
necessary to to enable like it's it's the

01:13:20.923 --> 01:13:22.305
whole point of notifications is they're

01:13:22.324 --> 01:13:23.885
kind of ephemeral they're there on the

01:13:23.925 --> 01:13:25.605
screen i kind of assumed though

01:13:26.511 --> 01:13:28.672
that's when you dismiss the notification,

01:13:28.752 --> 01:13:30.173
it's gone, right?

01:13:30.234 --> 01:13:33.515
I didn't think that there would be saved

01:13:33.997 --> 01:13:35.318
on your device in a database.

01:13:35.358 --> 01:13:36.878
So this might be something for Apple to

01:13:36.939 --> 01:13:40.060
actually fix because I feel like that is

01:13:40.201 --> 01:13:41.381
a bit of a concern.

01:13:43.435 --> 01:13:44.676
and anonymous three, four, four,

01:13:44.695 --> 01:13:46.417
just put in the chat, threat model,

01:13:46.457 --> 01:13:47.356
threat model, threat model.

01:13:47.476 --> 01:13:47.877
Exactly.

01:13:47.917 --> 01:13:48.337
Like if,

01:13:48.497 --> 01:13:50.257
if your concern is your device being

01:13:50.318 --> 01:13:52.698
seized and you want to protect the data

01:13:52.738 --> 01:13:55.399
on it, um, you know, use Molly,

01:13:55.578 --> 01:13:57.439
have an encrypted database in signal.

01:13:57.460 --> 01:13:59.180
Um,

01:13:59.199 --> 01:14:01.780
don't use notifications cause they can be

01:14:01.860 --> 01:14:02.320
accessed.

01:14:02.381 --> 01:14:02.640
Right.

01:14:02.841 --> 01:14:05.042
Um, I think it's kind of hard though,

01:14:05.301 --> 01:14:06.582
especially because, uh,

01:14:06.662 --> 01:14:07.882
in this story in particular,

01:14:07.962 --> 01:14:08.462
I think it was,

01:14:10.353 --> 01:14:11.713
They said the case was the first time

01:14:12.253 --> 01:14:14.154
authorities charged people for alleged

01:14:14.354 --> 01:14:17.537
Antifa activities after President Trump

01:14:17.697 --> 01:14:19.958
designated the umbrella term a terrorist

01:14:20.019 --> 01:14:20.658
organization.

01:14:20.679 --> 01:14:21.739
So I don't know,

01:14:22.319 --> 01:14:23.921
this is kind of a very nebulous thing

01:14:23.961 --> 01:14:24.820
going on in the US.

01:14:24.841 --> 01:14:26.221
Like what is Antifa?

01:14:26.261 --> 01:14:28.222
Like it's not really an organization.

01:14:28.262 --> 01:14:29.963
It's kind of a bit silly that they're

01:14:30.144 --> 01:14:30.805
calling it that.

01:14:31.744 --> 01:14:32.786
But I think people should be

01:14:34.711 --> 01:14:36.752
guess more vigilant than usual because you

01:14:36.773 --> 01:14:38.234
know you never know if your your

01:14:38.293 --> 01:14:39.555
activities are going to be considered

01:14:40.136 --> 01:14:42.297
antifa and then your devices might be

01:14:42.337 --> 01:14:44.639
seized so it could be worth thinking if

01:14:45.460 --> 01:14:46.640
you know you might be a target of

01:14:46.680 --> 01:14:47.881
this sort of thing a little bit more

01:14:48.523 --> 01:14:50.163
thoroughly because it does seem like the

01:14:50.203 --> 01:14:53.106
government is cracking down on political

01:14:53.146 --> 01:14:56.389
behavior um i can't really read the full

01:14:56.488 --> 01:14:58.890
article here so i'm not really sure it

01:14:58.911 --> 01:15:01.313
says here that it was uh people present

01:15:02.351 --> 01:15:03.692
It said the case involved a group of

01:15:03.731 --> 01:15:05.073
people setting off fireworks and

01:15:05.092 --> 01:15:07.974
vandalizing property at a ICE detention

01:15:07.993 --> 01:15:08.514
facility.

01:15:09.835 --> 01:15:10.935
Yeah, in Texas,

01:15:11.135 --> 01:15:13.036
and one person shooting a police officer

01:15:13.076 --> 01:15:13.496
in the neck.

01:15:13.595 --> 01:15:16.377
So I'm not going to comment on whether

01:15:16.417 --> 01:15:17.457
they were guilty or not,

01:15:18.318 --> 01:15:19.677
but that's what the FBI is finding.

01:15:19.698 --> 01:15:19.778
Yeah,

01:15:19.797 --> 01:15:20.677
I think that's up to the courts to

01:15:20.698 --> 01:15:21.057
decide.

01:15:21.479 --> 01:15:23.639
But I think the thing is, right,

01:15:23.658 --> 01:15:24.019
you know,

01:15:24.260 --> 01:15:25.279
if you're doing any sort of

01:15:27.073 --> 01:15:28.033
political action.

01:15:28.054 --> 01:15:29.494
I'm not saying, you know,

01:15:29.515 --> 01:15:31.015
you should go out and vandalize an ICE

01:15:31.055 --> 01:15:32.117
facility, but, you know,

01:15:32.237 --> 01:15:33.658
I'm saying like any sort of political

01:15:33.698 --> 01:15:33.918
action,

01:15:33.939 --> 01:15:36.400
whether that's peaceful protest or,

01:15:36.640 --> 01:15:38.222
you know, marching through the streets,

01:15:38.802 --> 01:15:38.983
you know,

01:15:39.023 --> 01:15:41.746
I think it's important to think about ways

01:15:41.765 --> 01:15:45.269
that your data could be extracted and used

01:15:45.288 --> 01:15:45.828
against you.

01:15:46.170 --> 01:15:47.350
I think in this case, you know,

01:15:47.591 --> 01:15:48.211
it's definitely,

01:15:49.993 --> 01:15:51.173
everyone deserves privacy,

01:15:51.213 --> 01:15:52.335
even if these people were

01:15:53.161 --> 01:15:56.264
vandalizing something um so it's kind of

01:15:56.304 --> 01:16:01.248
unfortunate that uh the the iphone was

01:16:01.288 --> 01:16:05.412
kind of a bit uh vulnerable to this

01:16:05.472 --> 01:16:07.935
extraction method i also do wonder if

01:16:08.614 --> 01:16:11.677
lockdown mode could have prevented this um

01:16:11.717 --> 01:16:14.180
because i think lockdown mode does prevent

01:16:14.220 --> 01:16:15.502
a lot of these uh

01:16:16.943 --> 01:16:20.686
like tools that these FBI uses to like

01:16:20.707 --> 01:16:22.247
forensic extraction tools.

01:16:22.569 --> 01:16:22.689
Um,

01:16:22.748 --> 01:16:23.770
I think it probably could have been

01:16:23.829 --> 01:16:26.351
interesting to hear, um,

01:16:26.431 --> 01:16:27.654
if that was the case or not,

01:16:27.913 --> 01:16:29.496
I'm going to assume no, but you know,

01:16:29.576 --> 01:16:31.296
I feel like anyone who's going to any,

01:16:32.337 --> 01:16:33.579
uh, political action,

01:16:34.079 --> 01:16:35.400
like just enable lockdown mode.

01:16:35.440 --> 01:16:36.563
It's like the least you can do.

01:16:36.662 --> 01:16:39.024
It's, it's, it's a basic thing.

01:16:39.064 --> 01:16:40.466
It's just a switch you turn on.

01:16:40.766 --> 01:16:40.846
Um,

01:16:42.181 --> 01:16:45.064
but I do think it is, uh,

01:16:45.085 --> 01:16:47.188
calling out Antifa is big,

01:16:47.387 --> 01:16:49.710
the hacker known as Fortan energy.

01:16:50.150 --> 01:16:50.371
Yeah.

01:16:50.570 --> 01:16:52.353
It's just like, it's, it's just,

01:16:52.673 --> 01:16:54.456
it just shows that the government doesn't

01:16:54.496 --> 01:16:57.279
really know about like any sort of,

01:16:58.239 --> 01:16:59.981
any sort of political organizations.

01:17:00.042 --> 01:17:02.585
I think it's a lot easier to, uh,

01:17:04.144 --> 01:17:07.045
it's a lot easier to lump a whole

01:17:07.064 --> 01:17:09.845
bunch of people together and sort of say

01:17:09.925 --> 01:17:11.645
this nebulous thing is bad.

01:17:12.046 --> 01:17:14.326
Um, then, you know,

01:17:14.365 --> 01:17:16.987
having any sort of specifics like, yeah,

01:17:17.027 --> 01:17:17.247
these,

01:17:17.686 --> 01:17:19.707
these protesters at this specific ice

01:17:19.747 --> 01:17:23.988
facility, um, who that's why, I mean,

01:17:24.028 --> 01:17:25.488
we don't really know if they're part of

01:17:25.507 --> 01:17:27.729
a group or anything, but, um,

01:17:27.748 --> 01:17:28.729
they could have just been acting

01:17:28.769 --> 01:17:29.408
independently.

01:17:29.668 --> 01:17:30.550
Um, I think it's just,

01:17:31.369 --> 01:17:32.689
it's kind of ridiculous that we're,

01:17:33.046 --> 01:17:34.405
grouping it all together like that.

01:17:35.266 --> 01:17:36.067
But yeah,

01:17:36.587 --> 01:17:37.807
I don't really have more to add than

01:17:37.847 --> 01:17:41.668
that.

01:17:41.748 --> 01:17:42.009
Yeah.

01:17:43.029 --> 01:17:44.189
The only thing I wanted to comment on

01:17:44.270 --> 01:17:45.610
is you said that it would be best

01:17:45.631 --> 01:17:47.270
to turn off notifications altogether,

01:17:47.371 --> 01:17:49.391
which yeah, I mean, if it's really,

01:17:49.431 --> 01:17:50.792
really, it's all about threat model,

01:17:50.811 --> 01:17:50.971
right?

01:17:51.012 --> 01:17:52.233
Like that wouldn't be feasible for me in

01:17:52.252 --> 01:17:53.212
my day to day for sure.

01:17:53.292 --> 01:17:55.854
But yeah, if you're,

01:17:55.974 --> 01:17:57.515
especially if you're doing something

01:17:58.197 --> 01:17:58.658
sensitive,

01:17:58.698 --> 01:18:00.298
whether that's simply protesting or

01:18:00.319 --> 01:18:01.359
whether you're taking it further,

01:18:01.399 --> 01:18:02.921
which I'm not advocating for violence or

01:18:02.942 --> 01:18:04.382
breaking any laws, but I'm just saying,

01:18:05.323 --> 01:18:05.984
you know, threat model.

01:18:06.005 --> 01:18:06.225
Yeah.

01:18:06.244 --> 01:18:08.106
You maybe should bring a separate device.

01:18:08.127 --> 01:18:09.689
You maybe should turn off notifications.

01:18:09.729 --> 01:18:13.271
It's, it's tricky, but it's also just,

01:18:15.033 --> 01:18:15.814
yeah, I don't know.

01:18:16.135 --> 01:18:16.756
I wonder how

01:18:18.920 --> 01:18:20.501
I personally just wonder how well-known

01:18:20.541 --> 01:18:21.782
this kind of vulnerability is.

01:18:21.881 --> 01:18:23.243
Is this the kind of thing that technical

01:18:23.262 --> 01:18:24.724
people would look at and be like, yeah,

01:18:25.243 --> 01:18:26.824
obviously, iPhones are keeping a...

01:18:27.104 --> 01:18:29.025
Because it sounded like Jonah...

01:18:29.567 --> 01:18:30.186
Full disclosure,

01:18:30.546 --> 01:18:32.087
Jonah's the person I usually go to with

01:18:32.148 --> 01:18:33.588
deep technical questions because he's

01:18:33.649 --> 01:18:34.869
really smart about this kind of stuff.

01:18:35.350 --> 01:18:36.570
And when I was asking him questions about

01:18:36.610 --> 01:18:38.171
this earlier this week, I was like...

01:18:38.192 --> 01:18:39.233
And I asked him those questions about

01:18:40.354 --> 01:18:41.373
would the phone restart?

01:18:41.413 --> 01:18:42.435
Would this, that, and the other...

01:18:42.975 --> 01:18:43.435
Or excuse me,

01:18:43.496 --> 01:18:44.896
would a restart clear out the...

01:18:45.796 --> 01:18:47.158
the cache or the database.

01:18:47.698 --> 01:18:48.899
And he didn't really know either.

01:18:49.059 --> 01:18:50.560
And he said the same thing that you

01:18:50.600 --> 01:18:51.420
said, where he's like,

01:18:51.640 --> 01:18:53.502
I always thought that when you swiped a

01:18:53.521 --> 01:18:54.622
notification, it was gone.

01:18:54.822 --> 01:18:56.842
Is this like, does you,

01:18:56.863 --> 01:18:58.184
do you have to handle it differently

01:18:58.224 --> 01:18:58.645
somehow?

01:18:58.824 --> 01:19:00.005
And so I,

01:19:00.024 --> 01:19:02.025
where I'm going with that is like, he's,

01:19:02.247 --> 01:19:03.546
he's really smart in my opinion,

01:19:03.646 --> 01:19:06.109
not to like, you know, but, uh,

01:19:06.189 --> 01:19:07.329
and if he doesn't even know this stuff,

01:19:07.350 --> 01:19:08.649
it's like, how many people do know this?

01:19:08.689 --> 01:19:10.251
Like, this is not common knowledge.

01:19:10.430 --> 01:19:12.493
And, um, I think we did find a,

01:19:12.512 --> 01:19:12.552
uh,

01:19:14.108 --> 01:19:15.748
some some court cases i mean this was

01:19:15.769 --> 01:19:17.349
like a real real quick web search we're

01:19:17.368 --> 01:19:19.729
not lawyers obviously but we did find some

01:19:19.890 --> 01:19:21.890
some cases where the judge kind of threw

01:19:21.990 --> 01:19:23.411
out certain evidence because they're like

01:19:23.871 --> 01:19:25.712
how would a person be expected to even

01:19:25.771 --> 01:19:27.313
know that they were leaving evidence which

01:19:27.332 --> 01:19:29.252
i mean that's not exactly what his

01:19:29.313 --> 01:19:30.253
argument was but you know it's like

01:19:30.274 --> 01:19:32.854
there's a certain level of just like like

01:19:32.954 --> 01:19:34.694
it's insane that you found this and i'm

01:19:34.734 --> 01:19:36.615
not going to allow this in court and

01:19:36.775 --> 01:19:39.056
it's i i kind of wonder how this

01:19:39.077 --> 01:19:41.738
would qualify as well how how well known

01:19:41.797 --> 01:19:42.938
is this kind of a thing and

01:19:44.386 --> 01:19:45.247
Yeah, super crazy.

01:19:45.407 --> 01:19:47.429
But I think this also brings up like

01:19:47.489 --> 01:19:49.591
the other concern with iOS, right?

01:19:49.631 --> 01:19:52.854
Because iOS is a closed system, right?

01:19:52.875 --> 01:19:54.476
We don't have access to the source code.

01:19:54.837 --> 01:19:56.078
We don't know that there's a database

01:19:56.099 --> 01:19:58.140
storing people's notifications.

01:19:58.180 --> 01:20:00.484
Like we're up to iOS now.

01:20:00.623 --> 01:20:02.246
Like there's been versions of

01:20:02.605 --> 01:20:03.405
Well, not twenty six,

01:20:03.445 --> 01:20:04.367
but I guess nineteen.

01:20:05.667 --> 01:20:06.667
Nineteen updates.

01:20:07.287 --> 01:20:09.368
And we still haven't seen this be an

01:20:09.429 --> 01:20:10.168
issue before.

01:20:11.208 --> 01:20:12.909
So I think that's the benefit of open

01:20:12.949 --> 01:20:14.609
source operating systems like, you know,

01:20:14.630 --> 01:20:15.310
graphing OS.

01:20:15.371 --> 01:20:17.631
We know there's no notification database.

01:20:17.692 --> 01:20:19.131
We know that those messages are being

01:20:19.171 --> 01:20:20.813
stored after they're being dismissed.

01:20:21.472 --> 01:20:22.493
Whereas with iOS,

01:20:22.533 --> 01:20:23.953
it's sort of a black box.

01:20:24.514 --> 01:20:26.494
we can protect as much as we can

01:20:27.375 --> 01:20:28.975
from this sort of thing like we can

01:20:29.655 --> 01:20:32.377
make assumptions that things are done a

01:20:32.417 --> 01:20:33.717
certain way but i feel like making

01:20:33.757 --> 01:20:35.878
assumptions is kind of risky because we

01:20:35.899 --> 01:20:39.840
don't have clear evidence with what these

01:20:39.880 --> 01:20:42.822
systems actually do so i think that's

01:20:42.841 --> 01:20:44.681
where open source operating systems are

01:20:44.702 --> 01:20:46.122
going to definitely beat out this sort of

01:20:46.143 --> 01:20:48.344
thing jonah says was about to type what

01:20:48.363 --> 01:20:50.885
jordan is saying yeah um so i guess

01:20:51.204 --> 01:20:52.465
uh we kind of had the same thought

01:20:52.525 --> 01:20:53.426
on this um but

01:20:54.813 --> 01:20:58.396
I think it's definitely, you know,

01:20:58.457 --> 01:20:59.837
I think one thing to think about as

01:20:59.877 --> 01:21:01.220
well is, you know,

01:21:01.340 --> 01:21:02.440
there's certain apps that need

01:21:02.480 --> 01:21:04.462
notifications and there's certain apps

01:21:04.502 --> 01:21:04.963
that don't.

01:21:05.123 --> 01:21:07.627
Like we can definitely try and reduce

01:21:07.646 --> 01:21:07.907
notifications

01:21:08.569 --> 01:21:10.252
the amount of stuff sending notifications,

01:21:10.271 --> 01:21:12.793
because as far as I'm aware on like

01:21:12.854 --> 01:21:14.615
Googled and Apple devices,

01:21:14.756 --> 01:21:16.478
there's the stuff that's sent,

01:21:16.698 --> 01:21:18.319
like the way that notifications work is it

01:21:18.359 --> 01:21:19.680
sent through, you know,

01:21:19.780 --> 01:21:22.264
Google Firebase or it's sent through Apple

01:21:22.283 --> 01:21:22.823
service.

01:21:23.324 --> 01:21:25.027
And we've already had a story previously

01:21:25.087 --> 01:21:26.247
where, you know, someone's,

01:21:26.979 --> 01:21:29.242
notifications were able to be subpoenaed

01:21:29.322 --> 01:21:33.704
from Apple and Google and get access to

01:21:33.725 --> 01:21:34.805
the notification content.

01:21:34.905 --> 01:21:37.528
And there's possibly sensitive information

01:21:37.568 --> 01:21:37.828
there.

01:21:38.248 --> 01:21:39.630
We did end up finding out, though,

01:21:39.729 --> 01:21:41.011
that in a lot of cases,

01:21:41.070 --> 01:21:42.712
a lot of these apps that are privacy

01:21:42.731 --> 01:21:43.131
focused,

01:21:43.171 --> 01:21:45.654
they actually encrypt the notification

01:21:45.694 --> 01:21:46.234
content.

01:21:46.295 --> 01:21:49.676
So Apple and Google will get notified when

01:21:51.068 --> 01:21:52.788
notification is arriving they won't have

01:21:52.809 --> 01:21:55.711
any insight into what it actually is so

01:21:56.051 --> 01:21:58.091
you know i think notifications are kind of

01:21:58.171 --> 01:22:02.654
one of those sort of uh they have

01:22:02.675 --> 01:22:04.595
a lot of like foot guns i guess

01:22:04.855 --> 01:22:06.817
they kind of are like a bit of

01:22:06.978 --> 01:22:10.038
a uh dangerous thing uh that we need

01:22:10.059 --> 01:22:12.100
to consider i think bringing the story up

01:22:12.180 --> 01:22:14.402
is like you know brought this to the

01:22:14.442 --> 01:22:15.983
forefront again um i think

01:22:17.846 --> 01:22:18.247
Obviously,

01:22:18.287 --> 01:22:20.609
there's people that need to disable

01:22:20.649 --> 01:22:21.409
notifications,

01:22:21.449 --> 01:22:24.512
but I think it's good to at least

01:22:24.573 --> 01:22:25.814
consider this as a threat,

01:22:26.793 --> 01:22:28.836
because I guess people haven't really been

01:22:28.876 --> 01:22:29.356
doing that.

01:22:31.838 --> 01:22:34.081
Yeah, and not to speculate too much,

01:22:34.100 --> 01:22:35.341
because you literally just said, like,

01:22:35.362 --> 01:22:35.601
you know,

01:22:35.662 --> 01:22:36.863
all we can do is speculate sometimes,

01:22:36.922 --> 01:22:39.944
but I wonder if, because you pointed out,

01:22:39.984 --> 01:22:40.386
it's like

01:22:41.512 --> 01:22:43.774
there's been so many versions of iPhone

01:22:43.793 --> 01:22:44.935
and we're just now learning this.

01:22:45.395 --> 01:22:46.496
And part of me just wonders,

01:22:47.136 --> 01:22:47.836
has it always,

01:22:47.916 --> 01:22:49.136
and this is just me thinking out loud,

01:22:49.157 --> 01:22:49.497
obviously,

01:22:49.777 --> 01:22:51.037
I know none of us have answers to

01:22:51.057 --> 01:22:51.537
this, but like,

01:22:51.878 --> 01:22:53.599
has it always been doing this or is

01:22:53.618 --> 01:22:54.439
this a new feature?

01:22:54.460 --> 01:22:55.761
Because my thought process is,

01:22:56.240 --> 01:22:58.601
if it's always been doing this,

01:22:58.702 --> 01:23:02.984
I think that kind of highlights the arms

01:23:03.024 --> 01:23:05.765
race nature of privacy and security where,

01:23:05.845 --> 01:23:07.646
you know, before it was like,

01:23:09.377 --> 01:23:09.756
I don't know,

01:23:09.796 --> 01:23:12.099
just to pull random examples out of thin

01:23:12.179 --> 01:23:13.801
air that may not fit because I'm making

01:23:13.820 --> 01:23:14.560
this up as I go along.

01:23:15.181 --> 01:23:15.841
But before,

01:23:15.921 --> 01:23:17.042
the police would walk by a building,

01:23:17.162 --> 01:23:18.625
look in the window, and go, oh,

01:23:18.824 --> 01:23:19.625
there's my evidence.

01:23:20.126 --> 01:23:22.528
And now they have to go deep into

01:23:22.547 --> 01:23:23.948
the building, into the bank vault.

01:23:24.909 --> 01:23:26.131
So it just kind of makes me wonder,

01:23:26.211 --> 01:23:27.612
is this some new thing?

01:23:27.872 --> 01:23:29.372
Or is they've just never used it before

01:23:29.393 --> 01:23:31.494
because they've never needed to try so

01:23:31.534 --> 01:23:32.716
hard to find evidence before,

01:23:32.775 --> 01:23:33.277
which would...

01:23:34.153 --> 01:23:34.953
If that is true,

01:23:34.993 --> 01:23:36.534
then that would just show how much more

01:23:36.574 --> 01:23:37.576
secure everything is getting.

01:23:37.615 --> 01:23:38.657
But again, we don't know.

01:23:38.896 --> 01:23:39.818
We'll never know, probably.

01:23:40.938 --> 01:23:41.979
Just a random thought that I had.

01:23:45.322 --> 01:23:46.743
I think that's all I've got on that

01:23:46.783 --> 01:23:47.904
story, personally.

01:23:50.716 --> 01:23:51.337
Alrighty then,

01:23:51.716 --> 01:23:54.597
I guess that's kind of a little bit

01:23:54.658 --> 01:23:57.078
of time now to move into the forum

01:23:57.139 --> 01:23:58.019
updates this week.

01:23:58.059 --> 01:23:58.680
So in a minute,

01:23:58.720 --> 01:24:00.539
we'll start taking viewer questions.

01:24:00.579 --> 01:24:02.240
So if you've been holding onto any

01:24:02.261 --> 01:24:04.121
questions about any of the stories we've

01:24:04.161 --> 01:24:05.442
talked about so far,

01:24:05.981 --> 01:24:07.903
go ahead and start leaving them on our

01:24:07.922 --> 01:24:10.984
forum thread or in the chat on the

01:24:11.025 --> 01:24:12.827
live stream and just so you know if

01:24:12.846 --> 01:24:14.448
you're watching this and you're not you

01:24:14.467 --> 01:24:15.529
don't have an account on one of those

01:24:15.569 --> 01:24:17.810
platforms we do stream on stream yard so

01:24:18.170 --> 01:24:19.970
check out the forum post and there's a

01:24:19.992 --> 01:24:21.853
link there you can join without an email

01:24:22.292 --> 01:24:24.073
just a name and you can ask a

01:24:24.113 --> 01:24:27.837
question but now for now let's stick

01:24:29.216 --> 01:24:30.377
to our community forum.

01:24:30.516 --> 01:24:31.756
And there's always a lot of activity

01:24:31.777 --> 01:24:32.056
there,

01:24:32.118 --> 01:24:34.698
but here's a few of this week's most

01:24:34.918 --> 01:24:37.039
interesting discussions happening there.

01:24:37.520 --> 01:24:39.480
So there was this thread that Nate linked

01:24:39.541 --> 01:24:42.603
here, and this one is about Wisconsin.

01:24:42.622 --> 01:24:45.984
So Wisconsinites can keep watching porn

01:24:46.163 --> 01:24:49.626
after governor vetoes age verification

01:24:50.265 --> 01:24:51.426
bill.

01:24:52.006 --> 01:24:52.966
So I guess I'm going to kind of

01:24:53.006 --> 01:24:53.807
throw this to you, Nate,

01:24:53.828 --> 01:24:55.068
because I feel like you have quite a

01:24:55.087 --> 01:24:56.048
lot of thoughts on this one.

01:24:58.484 --> 01:24:58.923
Yeah.

01:24:59.463 --> 01:25:00.184
Um,

01:25:00.224 --> 01:25:02.145
so I originally thought this was good

01:25:02.185 --> 01:25:03.425
news, not just from the porn angle.

01:25:03.465 --> 01:25:04.704
I think that's just four Oh four being

01:25:04.805 --> 01:25:05.345
clickbaity.

01:25:06.045 --> 01:25:07.525
Um, which I say that with love.

01:25:07.685 --> 01:25:08.926
I mean, it's to me,

01:25:08.966 --> 01:25:10.826
it's only clickbait if you don't deliver

01:25:10.865 --> 01:25:12.226
on the promise and you know,

01:25:12.327 --> 01:25:13.686
it's everybody's trying to stand out.

01:25:13.726 --> 01:25:13.926
Right.

01:25:13.966 --> 01:25:19.467
But anyways, um, yeah, so we've been, uh,

01:25:19.967 --> 01:25:22.069
you know, privacy is an uphill battle.

01:25:22.128 --> 01:25:23.029
I think we all know that.

01:25:23.109 --> 01:25:24.088
And I think that, um,

01:25:25.235 --> 01:25:26.458
It can be really depressing because I

01:25:26.479 --> 01:25:27.240
think if we're being honest,

01:25:27.280 --> 01:25:29.546
we generally tend to lose more than we

01:25:29.587 --> 01:25:29.846
win,

01:25:30.729 --> 01:25:32.434
which I don't think it's a lost cause.

01:25:32.533 --> 01:25:32.835
I think...

01:25:33.911 --> 01:25:35.632
Especially, I think, as things get worse,

01:25:35.693 --> 01:25:36.953
people are going to start realizing the

01:25:36.974 --> 01:25:37.814
value of their privacy,

01:25:37.854 --> 01:25:39.496
and hopefully we can start to reverse that

01:25:39.536 --> 01:25:40.157
trend a little bit.

01:25:40.277 --> 01:25:41.457
But a lot of the time,

01:25:41.779 --> 01:25:43.680
we do take some pretty severe losses,

01:25:43.720 --> 01:25:44.981
and so it's important to celebrate the

01:25:45.021 --> 01:25:45.381
wins,

01:25:46.422 --> 01:25:48.784
which I'll get to why this is a

01:25:48.824 --> 01:25:49.786
bit of a mixed bag in a minute.

01:25:49.826 --> 01:25:50.787
But for now,

01:25:50.867 --> 01:25:52.167
I do want to celebrate the good sides,

01:25:52.207 --> 01:25:53.710
which is that the governor rejected this.

01:25:54.109 --> 01:25:55.371
This was an age verification bill.

01:25:56.292 --> 01:25:58.153
Uh, assembly bill one Oh five,

01:25:58.172 --> 01:25:59.453
which would have four sites with more than

01:25:59.533 --> 01:26:01.975
one third of material harmful to minors,

01:26:02.655 --> 01:26:02.836
uh,

01:26:02.956 --> 01:26:04.697
defined as depictions of actual or

01:26:04.737 --> 01:26:06.216
simulated sexual acts or body parts

01:26:06.257 --> 01:26:07.377
included, including blah, blah, blah,

01:26:07.398 --> 01:26:07.797
blah, blah.

01:26:08.458 --> 01:26:10.000
Um, female nipples,

01:26:10.060 --> 01:26:11.841
not male nipples as always, but whatever,

01:26:11.881 --> 01:26:12.801
that's a rant for a different time.

01:26:13.220 --> 01:26:13.541
Anyways.

01:26:13.841 --> 01:26:13.942
Um,

01:26:14.702 --> 01:26:16.143
It would have required using any

01:26:16.162 --> 01:26:17.724
commercially reasonable method that uses

01:26:17.764 --> 01:26:19.064
public or private transactional data

01:26:19.104 --> 01:26:20.104
gathered about the individual.

01:26:20.725 --> 01:26:22.025
And the article says this means uploading

01:26:22.046 --> 01:26:22.426
an ID,

01:26:22.445 --> 01:26:23.846
showing their face for a biometric scan,

01:26:23.886 --> 01:26:24.966
uploading credit card information,

01:26:25.046 --> 01:26:26.007
or a combination of these.

01:26:26.707 --> 01:26:28.828
And the governor vetoed this bill and

01:26:28.849 --> 01:26:29.029
said,

01:26:29.189 --> 01:26:30.829
I am vetoing this bill in its entirety

01:26:30.850 --> 01:26:32.190
because I object to this bill's intrusion

01:26:32.251 --> 01:26:33.810
into the personal privacy of Wisconsin

01:26:33.831 --> 01:26:34.171
residents.

01:26:34.492 --> 01:26:35.591
While I agree that we should protect

01:26:35.612 --> 01:26:36.733
children from harmful material,

01:26:36.993 --> 01:26:38.734
this bill imposes an intrusive burden on

01:26:38.774 --> 01:26:39.894
adults who are trying to access

01:26:39.934 --> 01:26:41.715
constitutionally protected materials.

01:26:42.735 --> 01:26:42.956
Um,

01:26:43.993 --> 01:26:45.454
Evers wrote that the bill doesn't prevent

01:26:45.494 --> 01:26:47.176
platforms from giving collected personal

01:26:47.197 --> 01:26:48.057
data to third parties,

01:26:48.097 --> 01:26:49.559
such as the government or data brokers.

01:26:49.639 --> 01:26:50.039
And he wrote,

01:26:50.079 --> 01:26:51.981
this is a violation of personal privacy.

01:26:52.362 --> 01:26:52.743
Additionally,

01:26:52.802 --> 01:26:54.284
I'm concerned about data security and the

01:26:54.305 --> 01:26:56.046
potential for misuse of personally

01:26:56.067 --> 01:26:57.948
identifiable information that could be

01:26:58.009 --> 01:26:59.610
intercepted by or transmitted to a third

01:26:59.671 --> 01:27:01.472
party used for the basis of blackmail or

01:27:01.512 --> 01:27:02.153
identity theft.

01:27:03.713 --> 01:27:04.074
Further,

01:27:04.154 --> 01:27:05.454
although the bill includes penalties for a

01:27:05.494 --> 01:27:06.815
business entity who violates the

01:27:06.836 --> 01:27:08.136
prohibition of retention of personal data,

01:27:08.157 --> 01:27:09.577
those penalties cannot undo the harm.

01:27:09.957 --> 01:27:11.097
So all really,

01:27:11.137 --> 01:27:14.078
really good stuff that I was super stoked

01:27:14.099 --> 01:27:14.458
to see.

01:27:15.319 --> 01:27:16.119
Unfortunately,

01:27:17.881 --> 01:27:21.962
I think here in the comment section is

01:27:22.002 --> 01:27:24.623
kind of where it went wrong is some

01:27:24.644 --> 01:27:25.224
people pointed out,

01:27:25.243 --> 01:27:27.585
and I don't know if I missed this

01:27:27.645 --> 01:27:29.025
in the original article because I'm still

01:27:29.065 --> 01:27:30.327
not seeing it here either.

01:27:31.328 --> 01:27:32.047
Um,

01:27:32.068 --> 01:27:33.868
maybe it's like in a different statement

01:27:33.889 --> 01:27:34.389
that he gave her,

01:27:34.408 --> 01:27:35.368
like the rest of the statement,

01:27:35.809 --> 01:27:37.310
but some people quoted that, uh,

01:27:37.329 --> 01:27:38.949
the governor wants device level age

01:27:38.970 --> 01:27:39.591
verification.

01:27:40.171 --> 01:27:41.650
And apparently this is a quote from him.

01:27:41.831 --> 01:27:41.890
Uh,

01:27:41.930 --> 01:27:43.412
we can and should work to prevent minors

01:27:43.431 --> 01:27:44.452
from accessing adult content.

01:27:44.832 --> 01:27:45.412
Um,

01:27:45.432 --> 01:27:46.592
but there are better solutions than the

01:27:46.653 --> 01:27:47.453
one offered by this bill.

01:27:47.472 --> 01:27:47.993
For example,

01:27:48.033 --> 01:27:49.054
we can work with tech companies to

01:27:49.073 --> 01:27:51.293
implement device-based device-based age

01:27:51.314 --> 01:27:52.935
verification that takes place on a user's

01:27:52.954 --> 01:27:53.595
phone or computer,

01:27:53.954 --> 01:27:55.195
which can be more secure and effective

01:27:55.235 --> 01:27:55.496
method.

01:27:55.576 --> 01:27:56.515
Other States have been moving toward

01:27:56.536 --> 01:27:57.817
device-based solutions and major tech

01:27:57.837 --> 01:27:59.056
companies are adopting these options as

01:27:59.096 --> 01:27:59.256
well.

01:27:59.985 --> 01:28:03.429
So yeah, it's, I don't know.

01:28:03.488 --> 01:28:04.270
I don't want to get into the age

01:28:04.310 --> 01:28:04.989
verification debate.

01:28:05.029 --> 01:28:08.193
Cause we've, I still am fresh from like,

01:28:08.212 --> 01:28:08.393
there was,

01:28:08.472 --> 01:28:09.793
there was like a three or four week

01:28:09.873 --> 01:28:11.916
run where we talked about it every single

01:28:11.956 --> 01:28:12.216
week.

01:28:12.536 --> 01:28:13.756
And I still don't feel like we have

01:28:13.796 --> 01:28:14.797
anything new to add to that,

01:28:14.837 --> 01:28:16.118
or at least I certainly don't.

01:28:16.300 --> 01:28:18.261
Um, you can feel free to,

01:28:18.381 --> 01:28:19.681
to chime in if you have more to

01:28:19.721 --> 01:28:20.122
add to that.

01:28:20.182 --> 01:28:21.444
But, um,

01:28:22.671 --> 01:28:23.051
I don't know.

01:28:23.171 --> 01:28:24.953
I have mixed feelings about device based

01:28:24.972 --> 01:28:27.775
stuff, but I certainly see the drawback.

01:28:27.815 --> 01:28:28.235
And anyways,

01:28:28.556 --> 01:28:29.957
I guess this one's a mixed bag,

01:28:29.997 --> 01:28:32.560
but it's I want to celebrate the win

01:28:32.600 --> 01:28:33.560
that he did repeal it.

01:28:33.640 --> 01:28:35.643
And I certainly agree that this would have

01:28:35.662 --> 01:28:37.043
been way worse than device based.

01:28:37.204 --> 01:28:39.065
I'm definitely I definitely know the

01:28:39.105 --> 01:28:40.127
problems with device based.

01:28:40.146 --> 01:28:41.268
I'm not saying I'm in favor of it.

01:28:42.064 --> 01:28:44.948
But there's a difference between getting a

01:28:44.988 --> 01:28:46.288
paper cut and getting your finger chopped

01:28:46.349 --> 01:28:46.488
off.

01:28:46.509 --> 01:28:47.649
And I think this would have been getting

01:28:47.670 --> 01:28:48.430
your finger chopped off.

01:28:48.470 --> 01:28:50.771
So I think that's good that we avoided

01:28:50.792 --> 01:28:51.552
a much worse fate.

01:28:51.733 --> 01:28:53.694
I hope he doesn't go for the device-based

01:28:53.715 --> 01:28:53.994
stuff.

01:28:54.034 --> 01:28:54.935
That's kind of the drawback.

01:28:54.975 --> 01:28:56.818
But yeah, anyways,

01:28:56.898 --> 01:28:57.837
I'm going in circles now.

01:28:57.918 --> 01:28:59.560
I just wanted to celebrate a small,

01:28:59.680 --> 01:29:00.541
even if it's a mixed bag,

01:29:00.581 --> 01:29:01.742
we did have a small win this week

01:29:01.761 --> 01:29:03.143
that I thought was pretty cool.

01:29:04.899 --> 01:29:05.819
Yeah, that's good to hear.

01:29:06.081 --> 01:29:07.740
I mean, one thing that I kind of,

01:29:08.581 --> 01:29:10.282
it kind of bounces off the issue that

01:29:10.322 --> 01:29:12.243
we talked about in the highlight story is,

01:29:12.943 --> 01:29:13.203
you know,

01:29:13.762 --> 01:29:15.644
I think we should be against all these

01:29:15.724 --> 01:29:18.944
sort of centralized things, right?

01:29:18.965 --> 01:29:20.345
Like this is centralization.

01:29:21.126 --> 01:29:22.865
Again, like we talked about app stores,

01:29:22.926 --> 01:29:23.246
right?

01:29:23.286 --> 01:29:26.606
Three app stores, or I guess really two,

01:29:26.686 --> 01:29:27.887
there's like two big ones,

01:29:27.988 --> 01:29:30.529
Google Play and Apple's app store, right?

01:29:30.729 --> 01:29:30.868
And

01:29:32.676 --> 01:29:33.896
I think this is just like sort of

01:29:33.997 --> 01:29:36.257
reinforcing why these platforms are bad.

01:29:36.297 --> 01:29:37.458
Like we talked about at the start,

01:29:37.498 --> 01:29:40.180
like having these platforms decide what is

01:29:40.399 --> 01:29:41.680
allowed, what is not allowed.

01:29:42.780 --> 01:29:44.862
This is just a bad idea.

01:29:46.402 --> 01:29:47.422
This bill in particular,

01:29:47.462 --> 01:29:50.003
it sounds to most people,

01:29:50.104 --> 01:29:51.684
I think it would sound reasonable,

01:29:52.685 --> 01:29:54.945
but the issue is where, you know,

01:29:55.565 --> 01:29:57.567
there's more, there's things where like,

01:29:57.606 --> 01:29:57.846
you know,

01:29:58.466 --> 01:30:00.688
what's classified as adult content, right?

01:30:00.953 --> 01:30:02.654
Like that's the stuff that they mentioned

01:30:02.774 --> 01:30:06.695
sounded reasonable, I guess if you're,

01:30:06.796 --> 01:30:09.676
I mean, I guess, uh, but you know,

01:30:09.756 --> 01:30:11.518
there's all sorts of issues when it starts

01:30:11.557 --> 01:30:13.819
covering more stuff that isn't technically

01:30:14.198 --> 01:30:14.939
adult content.

01:30:14.958 --> 01:30:17.820
That's restricting people from accessing

01:30:17.860 --> 01:30:19.121
those, uh,

01:30:19.462 --> 01:30:21.442
applications unless they verify their

01:30:21.521 --> 01:30:22.063
identity.

01:30:23.203 --> 01:30:24.283
Um, so I dunno,

01:30:24.503 --> 01:30:25.863
this is definitely sort of,

01:30:26.024 --> 01:30:27.444
I guess it's somewhat of a win.

01:30:27.984 --> 01:30:28.926
It's not like a.

01:30:32.096 --> 01:30:34.018
The bill got taken down, I guess,

01:30:34.097 --> 01:30:35.498
but there's still the chance that

01:30:35.559 --> 01:30:38.122
device-based age verification might make

01:30:38.162 --> 01:30:38.702
its way through,

01:30:38.721 --> 01:30:42.826
like we've been seeing with the app store

01:30:42.865 --> 01:30:44.226
transparency stuff.

01:30:45.268 --> 01:30:46.488
I think that would definitely be

01:30:48.423 --> 01:30:50.865
probably in a lot of cases worse because

01:30:51.105 --> 01:30:53.407
you know doing this on a device level

01:30:53.527 --> 01:30:56.729
is a lot more invasive and it gives

01:30:56.750 --> 01:30:58.650
a lot more control to these tech companies

01:30:58.990 --> 01:31:03.014
so I'm certainly against both I think I

01:31:03.054 --> 01:31:04.375
can't believe I keep having to say this

01:31:04.414 --> 01:31:07.117
but like you know we have parental

01:31:07.136 --> 01:31:09.557
controls like we have all these amazing

01:31:09.597 --> 01:31:11.479
tools that people have access to I don't

01:31:11.520 --> 01:31:13.360
think the government needs to get uh

01:31:15.515 --> 01:31:18.255
involved on people's devices so much,

01:31:18.314 --> 01:31:18.655
right?

01:31:19.275 --> 01:31:20.876
Maybe people have different opinions.

01:31:20.895 --> 01:31:22.195
There's a way to do this privately.

01:31:22.975 --> 01:31:26.457
I just think there's always leaks, right?

01:31:26.716 --> 01:31:28.997
Like this article in particular, actually,

01:31:29.497 --> 01:31:31.398
it mentions, like if you scroll down,

01:31:33.158 --> 01:31:34.698
there's a section in there where they talk

01:31:34.738 --> 01:31:37.918
about the Discord age verification stuff

01:31:37.979 --> 01:31:39.519
where people that were having to send

01:31:39.538 --> 01:31:43.039
their ID data and selfies was breached in

01:31:43.079 --> 01:31:44.060
a security breach, right?

01:31:44.079 --> 01:31:44.279
Like

01:31:46.342 --> 01:31:48.543
Even though we think all of these services

01:31:48.783 --> 01:31:50.685
are done properly,

01:31:50.725 --> 01:31:52.305
the age verification systems,

01:31:52.565 --> 01:31:54.166
a lot of times security is just not

01:31:54.206 --> 01:31:54.867
the priority.

01:31:55.247 --> 01:31:57.768
So that's sort of my thoughts on this

01:31:57.807 --> 01:31:59.368
story, I guess.

01:32:00.149 --> 01:32:00.769
And even if they were,

01:32:00.809 --> 01:32:01.970
just to add on to that last part

01:32:02.010 --> 01:32:04.070
you said, this week alone,

01:32:04.131 --> 01:32:05.751
I've covered three or four stories about

01:32:05.831 --> 01:32:07.152
insider threats and people...

01:32:07.904 --> 01:32:10.546
abusing their access to a system to get

01:32:10.586 --> 01:32:10.865
into.

01:32:11.305 --> 01:32:12.006
I covered one.

01:32:12.186 --> 01:32:13.127
I need to add these to my website,

01:32:13.167 --> 01:32:13.408
actually.

01:32:13.807 --> 01:32:16.390
I covered one about a police officer who

01:32:16.409 --> 01:32:18.671
was using DMV photos to make AI nudes

01:32:18.711 --> 01:32:20.452
of women, not even making that up.

01:32:20.932 --> 01:32:22.354
And then I found another one.

01:32:22.774 --> 01:32:23.954
I wasn't even looking for this one.

01:32:23.994 --> 01:32:25.195
This one didn't even come across my

01:32:25.235 --> 01:32:25.595
newsfeed.

01:32:25.695 --> 01:32:28.078
I was web searching for something else and

01:32:28.118 --> 01:32:29.578
it magically showed up in the search

01:32:29.599 --> 01:32:29.958
results.

01:32:30.378 --> 01:32:32.239
There was a dude at Facebook who was

01:32:32.279 --> 01:32:34.362
giving himself access to over thirty

01:32:34.402 --> 01:32:35.662
thousand private photos.

01:32:36.323 --> 01:32:37.444
So, yeah,

01:32:37.543 --> 01:32:39.426
even if these systems are made correctly,

01:32:39.466 --> 01:32:40.246
quote-unquote correctly,

01:32:40.265 --> 01:32:41.327
I'm not going to count Facebook as

01:32:41.367 --> 01:32:43.609
correctly because they've had more data

01:32:43.628 --> 01:32:45.289
breaches than there are grains of sand on

01:32:45.310 --> 01:32:45.551
Earth.

01:32:46.091 --> 01:32:48.573
But even if these things are made

01:32:48.613 --> 01:32:50.434
correctly, they're still insider threats,

01:32:50.493 --> 01:32:52.935
and it's just –

01:32:52.185 --> 01:32:52.605
Yeah,

01:32:52.626 --> 01:32:53.506
I think I'm kind of coming around to

01:32:53.527 --> 01:32:55.088
you because there's so many ways to solve

01:32:55.109 --> 01:32:55.850
a problem, right?

01:32:56.029 --> 01:32:58.332
And there's the technical solutions,

01:32:58.493 --> 01:32:59.555
there's legal solutions,

01:32:59.595 --> 01:33:00.817
but then there's like educational

01:33:00.856 --> 01:33:01.277
solutions,

01:33:01.296 --> 01:33:02.418
which I think is kind of like where

01:33:02.458 --> 01:33:03.860
things like privacy guides come in and

01:33:03.900 --> 01:33:05.342
this this podcast and stuff.

01:33:06.043 --> 01:33:06.885
And I think

01:33:08.166 --> 01:33:09.046
From what I'm seeing,

01:33:09.226 --> 01:33:10.927
I think this is probably largely an

01:33:11.047 --> 01:33:13.029
educational problem because I feel like I

01:33:13.069 --> 01:33:14.789
mentioned the example of, again,

01:33:14.829 --> 01:33:16.810
my sister didn't even know that iPhones

01:33:16.930 --> 01:33:18.030
have parental controls.

01:33:18.070 --> 01:33:19.652
And granted, her kid is really young.

01:33:19.671 --> 01:33:20.853
She doesn't have to worry about that yet.

01:33:20.932 --> 01:33:21.653
He never has.

01:33:22.154 --> 01:33:23.654
He doesn't have his own phone or tablet

01:33:23.694 --> 01:33:24.215
or anything.

01:33:25.114 --> 01:33:25.354
Um,

01:33:25.414 --> 01:33:27.155
so she's not at that point where she

01:33:27.176 --> 01:33:27.836
has to worry about it,

01:33:27.855 --> 01:33:29.416
but like how many parents know these

01:33:29.456 --> 01:33:29.976
things exist?

01:33:30.016 --> 01:33:31.676
How many parents know what they're capable

01:33:31.756 --> 01:33:31.856
of?

01:33:31.976 --> 01:33:32.457
I've heard,

01:33:33.057 --> 01:33:33.957
I never used them cause I don't have

01:33:33.997 --> 01:33:34.238
kids.

01:33:34.637 --> 01:33:35.618
I've heard that some of these parental

01:33:35.637 --> 01:33:36.838
controls are actually really good,

01:33:37.439 --> 01:33:38.958
but how many of them, you know,

01:33:38.998 --> 01:33:40.840
just don't know they're there or they'll

01:33:40.859 --> 01:33:42.579
pay for some garbage third party thing.

01:33:42.600 --> 01:33:43.640
That's going to be selling their kids

01:33:43.661 --> 01:33:43.940
data.

01:33:44.581 --> 01:33:45.860
Cough Cough Life, three sixty.

01:33:46.582 --> 01:33:47.261
Because, you know, again,

01:33:47.282 --> 01:33:48.782
like especially my my generation,

01:33:48.822 --> 01:33:50.042
we came up in an era where like

01:33:50.643 --> 01:33:51.842
Windows security was garbage.

01:33:51.922 --> 01:33:53.363
Nobody trusted Windows firewall.

01:33:53.404 --> 01:33:53.743
Of course,

01:33:53.783 --> 01:33:54.984
you had to pay for a third party

01:33:55.043 --> 01:33:55.564
antivirus.

01:33:55.583 --> 01:33:57.125
And that's just not true anymore.

01:33:57.265 --> 01:33:58.704
And I just I wonder how many people

01:33:58.744 --> 01:33:59.265
even know that.

01:33:59.286 --> 01:33:59.426
So, yeah,

01:33:59.506 --> 01:34:01.286
I think I am kind of starting to

01:34:01.326 --> 01:34:02.806
lean more towards the side of like I

01:34:02.846 --> 01:34:04.327
think this is largely an edge or at

01:34:04.367 --> 01:34:06.167
very least we need to start with the

01:34:06.247 --> 01:34:07.627
educational aspect.

01:34:08.068 --> 01:34:09.189
And then if we get everybody up to

01:34:09.208 --> 01:34:10.668
speed and find out that there's cracks,

01:34:10.689 --> 01:34:11.930
then maybe we start talking about how do

01:34:11.949 --> 01:34:12.489
we fix this?

01:34:12.550 --> 01:34:12.729
But

01:34:13.750 --> 01:34:13.949
Yeah,

01:34:13.989 --> 01:34:14.791
this definitely feels like an

01:34:14.890 --> 01:34:17.472
oversimplified... I mean,

01:34:17.512 --> 01:34:18.372
I've known that from the start.

01:34:18.412 --> 01:34:19.134
But yeah,

01:34:19.234 --> 01:34:21.534
age verification is just an overly simple

01:34:21.694 --> 01:34:23.015
solution.

01:34:23.235 --> 01:34:24.096
I think I want to add a little

01:34:24.117 --> 01:34:25.978
bit extra onto what you're saying there

01:34:25.997 --> 01:34:28.038
about how we should...

01:34:29.863 --> 01:34:31.524
teach adults about these features.

01:34:32.085 --> 01:34:33.545
We have gotten to a point, right,

01:34:34.185 --> 01:34:36.345
where it is like,

01:34:36.445 --> 01:34:37.787
I almost feel like people don't have an

01:34:37.827 --> 01:34:40.728
excuse because if you buy a new Google

01:34:40.747 --> 01:34:42.707
device, if you buy a new Apple device,

01:34:42.847 --> 01:34:44.288
if you buy a new Windows device,

01:34:44.929 --> 01:34:46.109
in the setup process,

01:34:46.609 --> 01:34:48.090
it literally asks you,

01:34:48.590 --> 01:34:50.511
is this device for a child?

01:34:51.752 --> 01:34:54.295
Um, like it is kind of like,

01:34:54.694 --> 01:34:55.975
I feel like we've gotten to a point,

01:34:56.015 --> 01:34:56.195
right?

01:34:56.235 --> 01:34:57.496
Where like, maybe,

01:34:58.337 --> 01:35:00.198
maybe the device has to come with like

01:35:00.257 --> 01:35:01.738
a red sheet of paper or something that

01:35:01.759 --> 01:35:04.199
says, if this device is for a child,

01:35:04.260 --> 01:35:06.600
please set it up during the setup process.

01:35:06.621 --> 01:35:08.301
Like how much more obvious can we get?

01:35:08.402 --> 01:35:09.222
Like, you know what I mean?

01:35:09.483 --> 01:35:11.404
But actually I do want to push back

01:35:11.423 --> 01:35:11.984
on that a little bit.

01:35:12.003 --> 01:35:12.984
Cause it doesn't do that here in the

01:35:13.045 --> 01:35:15.206
U S. Um,

01:35:15.265 --> 01:35:16.506
but I think that would be a good

01:35:16.587 --> 01:35:17.967
idea if it did that in the U

01:35:18.167 --> 01:35:19.188
S because I don't see any reason it

01:35:19.228 --> 01:35:20.109
shouldn't.

01:35:20.189 --> 01:35:20.288
No.

01:35:21.533 --> 01:35:22.474
It doesn't ask?

01:35:23.134 --> 01:35:24.574
I haven't seen a single one in the

01:35:24.654 --> 01:35:24.854
US.

01:35:24.875 --> 01:35:25.355
And I mean, granted,

01:35:25.376 --> 01:35:26.457
it's been a while since I've set up

01:35:26.497 --> 01:35:28.837
anything that wasn't... No,

01:35:28.978 --> 01:35:31.039
even because the most recent device...

01:35:31.060 --> 01:35:31.640
Well, I mean, okay,

01:35:31.680 --> 01:35:33.280
this computer is a company computer,

01:35:33.301 --> 01:35:34.122
so it was already set up when I

01:35:34.141 --> 01:35:34.442
got it.

01:35:36.023 --> 01:35:40.006
My Windows computer I got in...

01:35:44.029 --> 01:35:45.029
When did I get my iPhone?

01:35:46.032 --> 01:35:46.311
I don't know,

01:35:46.332 --> 01:35:47.792
but they're all within the last five years

01:35:47.832 --> 01:35:48.153
for sure.

01:35:48.212 --> 01:35:49.234
And not a single one of them has

01:35:49.274 --> 01:35:49.833
done it to me.

01:35:49.854 --> 01:35:51.774
I don't know.

01:35:51.795 --> 01:35:53.095
I don't think I know anybody who set

01:35:53.115 --> 01:35:54.256
up a device from scratch.

01:35:54.275 --> 01:35:55.417
I think most people I know just like

01:35:55.457 --> 01:35:57.097
transfer their Apple ID or their Google

01:35:57.578 --> 01:35:58.257
account or whatever.

01:35:58.297 --> 01:35:59.658
So I don't know.

01:36:00.038 --> 01:36:01.100
I could try to do some digging and

01:36:01.119 --> 01:36:01.659
look into it.

01:36:01.680 --> 01:36:02.159
But yeah,

01:36:02.380 --> 01:36:03.841
I've never had a device ask me that

01:36:04.001 --> 01:36:04.940
ever here in the US.

01:36:05.020 --> 01:36:05.681
But like I said,

01:36:05.742 --> 01:36:06.702
I don't think that would be a bad

01:36:06.761 --> 01:36:07.542
idea because...

01:36:08.162 --> 01:36:08.382
Yeah.

01:36:08.422 --> 01:36:09.903
How cool would that be if, you know,

01:36:09.943 --> 01:36:11.144
my sister goes out and buys her kid

01:36:11.184 --> 01:36:12.444
his first iPhone and it says,

01:36:12.804 --> 01:36:13.863
is this device for a child?

01:36:13.904 --> 01:36:14.604
And she goes, why?

01:36:14.625 --> 01:36:14.885
Yes.

01:36:15.164 --> 01:36:15.685
Yes, it is.

01:36:15.765 --> 01:36:16.965
And then it just walks her through the

01:36:16.984 --> 01:36:17.744
parental controls.

01:36:17.985 --> 01:36:20.365
So yeah, I think that, I mean,

01:36:20.565 --> 01:36:22.306
I can only comment on like,

01:36:22.506 --> 01:36:24.667
I don't have particularly new devices.

01:36:24.766 --> 01:36:26.787
Like I have an older phone, right.

01:36:26.847 --> 01:36:29.268
I reset it recently and through the setup

01:36:29.307 --> 01:36:32.189
process, at least on iOS, it did ask,

01:36:33.168 --> 01:36:35.149
um, you know, it said,

01:36:36.333 --> 01:36:38.015
It said during the setup process, like,

01:36:38.076 --> 01:36:39.377
is this device for a child?

01:36:39.436 --> 01:36:41.759
Same with this Android phone on the Google

01:36:41.918 --> 01:36:42.639
operating system.

01:36:42.759 --> 01:36:43.939
And same with Windows, actually.

01:36:43.960 --> 01:36:45.421
I installed Windows recently and they did

01:36:45.542 --> 01:36:45.801
ask.

01:36:46.682 --> 01:36:48.644
But it does say on Apple's website.

01:36:49.604 --> 01:36:51.686
I did look into this before because I

01:36:51.707 --> 01:36:53.307
was having this conversation with someone.

01:36:53.328 --> 01:37:01.494
Like, it does offer this section.

01:37:01.555 --> 01:37:02.976
It does say on their website, you know,

01:37:03.016 --> 01:37:05.898
this is a –

01:37:07.016 --> 01:37:09.760
before you can set parental controls on a

01:37:09.800 --> 01:37:10.500
child's device.

01:37:10.539 --> 01:37:16.246
So it doesn't say specifically on here.

01:37:17.327 --> 01:37:17.966
I mean, I don't know.

01:37:18.067 --> 01:37:19.269
I don't think it would be different in

01:37:19.288 --> 01:37:19.748
the US,

01:37:19.809 --> 01:37:22.131
but I guess you can trial and error

01:37:22.150 --> 01:37:22.452
this.

01:37:22.591 --> 01:37:23.712
But it does say,

01:37:23.932 --> 01:37:26.555
I'm seeing articles here where it says it

01:37:26.716 --> 01:37:26.876
is...

01:37:27.716 --> 01:37:29.618
implementing new features when you set up

01:37:29.658 --> 01:37:30.137
a device.

01:37:30.158 --> 01:37:30.938
So I'm not sure,

01:37:30.997 --> 01:37:32.939
maybe we'll have to look more into how

01:37:32.958 --> 01:37:35.220
that affects things globally.

01:37:35.239 --> 01:37:37.100
Because I know in Australia,

01:37:37.121 --> 01:37:39.282
we do have like age verification laws and

01:37:39.322 --> 01:37:39.721
stuff.

01:37:40.762 --> 01:37:42.582
So it could be applied differently here.

01:37:42.682 --> 01:37:46.385
But I do think companies are making things

01:37:46.545 --> 01:37:48.405
incredibly easy now to do this.

01:37:49.305 --> 01:37:50.726
And that's why I kind of get a

01:37:50.747 --> 01:37:52.306
bit frustrated when there's government

01:37:52.327 --> 01:37:55.328
officials who are pushing for these really

01:37:56.333 --> 01:38:00.078
aggressive methods to do this right like i

01:38:00.139 --> 01:38:03.844
don't know i feel like generally it's not

01:38:03.923 --> 01:38:05.826
up to the government to decide this sort

01:38:05.865 --> 01:38:07.228
of stuff like it should be up to

01:38:07.268 --> 01:38:09.570
like a parenting decision um from the

01:38:09.610 --> 01:38:10.932
parents like if they want to have a

01:38:10.972 --> 01:38:13.456
child using an adult device they can but

01:38:14.457 --> 01:38:14.618
um

01:38:16.484 --> 01:38:18.387
Yeah, I definitely think the process,

01:38:18.889 --> 01:38:21.192
at least even if it doesn't display it

01:38:21.592 --> 01:38:22.675
on setting up a device,

01:38:22.875 --> 01:38:25.599
I think it's good that the integration is

01:38:25.639 --> 01:38:26.260
already there.

01:38:26.461 --> 01:38:27.762
The options are there.

01:38:29.695 --> 01:38:31.698
Maybe we could do a better job showing

01:38:31.738 --> 01:38:33.319
people that this isn't even an option.

01:38:34.100 --> 01:38:36.542
But I feel like it's, I don't know,

01:38:36.563 --> 01:38:39.867
maybe Joda can comment on like a US

01:38:39.907 --> 01:38:40.707
perspective on this.

01:38:40.747 --> 01:38:43.010
But every device I've set up so far

01:38:43.609 --> 01:38:45.252
has asked me if it's a child's one.

01:38:45.372 --> 01:38:47.715
So I don't know.

01:38:48.990 --> 01:38:49.190
Yeah,

01:38:49.230 --> 01:38:50.792
maybe I need to go reset my iPhone

01:38:50.832 --> 01:38:51.472
and see what happens.

01:38:51.632 --> 01:38:53.033
And I agree with you.

01:38:53.073 --> 01:38:53.634
That's what I'm saying.

01:38:54.054 --> 01:38:55.555
I've heard the parental controls are

01:38:55.595 --> 01:38:56.195
really good.

01:38:56.775 --> 01:38:58.157
It's just, at least here in the US,

01:38:58.197 --> 01:38:59.198
I feel like it's an issue of how

01:38:59.217 --> 01:39:00.738
do we let people know those are out

01:39:00.779 --> 01:39:00.939
there.

01:39:01.458 --> 01:39:02.640
I didn't even know Windows had parental

01:39:02.680 --> 01:39:03.940
controls, to be totally honest with you.

01:39:04.020 --> 01:39:05.221
But I don't know.

01:39:05.502 --> 01:39:05.921
I've just...

01:39:07.563 --> 01:39:08.684
Maybe that's something that's only rolled

01:39:08.724 --> 01:39:09.645
out in the past couple years,

01:39:09.664 --> 01:39:10.925
and I just barely missed it.

01:39:11.046 --> 01:39:11.206
So...

01:39:12.421 --> 01:39:12.720
I don't know,

01:39:12.761 --> 01:39:14.622
but I certainly would not be opposed to

01:39:14.682 --> 01:39:14.762
it.

01:39:14.783 --> 01:39:15.323
To like, yeah,

01:39:15.342 --> 01:39:16.863
these controls are already built in.

01:39:16.944 --> 01:39:18.425
Say that this device is for a child

01:39:18.505 --> 01:39:19.725
and we'll walk you through how to set

01:39:19.746 --> 01:39:20.567
them up and how to use them.

01:39:20.627 --> 01:39:22.047
I think that would be awesome.

01:39:23.088 --> 01:39:24.890
Yeah, I've definitely seen it on Windows.

01:39:24.930 --> 01:39:26.591
Can't recall on Android and iOS.

01:39:26.631 --> 01:39:27.251
So it does,

01:39:27.452 --> 01:39:29.472
I think it might've been because you

01:39:29.573 --> 01:39:32.015
might've got the laptop as a Windows X

01:39:32.074 --> 01:39:33.836
laptop and then you upgraded it to Windows

01:39:34.095 --> 01:39:34.275
XI.

01:39:34.355 --> 01:39:35.856
It might've bypassed the screen.

01:39:35.877 --> 01:39:37.458
That could be it, yeah.

01:39:37.578 --> 01:39:39.460
Because it, wait, was this one?

01:39:42.542 --> 01:39:43.342
I'm not sure, actually.

01:39:43.923 --> 01:39:45.644
I think it was more a Windows Eleven

01:39:45.684 --> 01:39:46.123
feature.

01:39:46.363 --> 01:39:48.045
So it could have been before they fully

01:39:48.265 --> 01:39:49.024
released it all.

01:39:50.166 --> 01:39:51.546
But the way it works on Windows is

01:39:51.586 --> 01:39:52.386
quite good as well.

01:39:52.627 --> 01:39:54.686
It works really well on iOS and Google

01:39:54.726 --> 01:39:55.087
as well.

01:39:56.787 --> 01:39:59.809
I think it's currently a Mac.

01:39:59.908 --> 01:40:01.130
Yeah, Mac has it too.

01:40:01.310 --> 01:40:03.310
So all the major platforms do have it.

01:40:03.430 --> 01:40:06.311
So I kind of become a little bit

01:40:06.351 --> 01:40:07.292
frustrated when we're

01:40:08.984 --> 01:40:11.466
Trying to push these aggressive laws.

01:40:11.967 --> 01:40:13.108
I've seen it for Apple Watches,

01:40:13.429 --> 01:40:14.048
says Jonah.

01:40:14.069 --> 01:40:15.430
Yeah, I've seen it too.

01:40:15.530 --> 01:40:17.332
Quite good if you use their online

01:40:17.372 --> 01:40:18.872
accounts, as far as I know.

01:40:18.953 --> 01:40:21.615
I mean, yeah.

01:40:21.695 --> 01:40:24.037
I mean, this is kind of a drawback,

01:40:24.118 --> 01:40:24.417
right?

01:40:25.679 --> 01:40:27.621
I don't think Graphene OS has parental

01:40:27.661 --> 01:40:28.561
controls built in.

01:40:29.462 --> 01:40:30.804
Don't think that's really a priority for

01:40:30.844 --> 01:40:31.024
them.

01:40:31.944 --> 01:40:33.506
And definitely not Linux, so...

01:40:34.095 --> 01:40:35.296
I mean, yeah,

01:40:35.317 --> 01:40:36.457
that is kind of an issue with these

01:40:36.518 --> 01:40:37.519
more open platforms.

01:40:37.578 --> 01:40:39.439
They tend to not include these sort of

01:40:39.479 --> 01:40:39.880
features.

01:40:40.801 --> 01:40:41.921
So yeah,

01:40:41.942 --> 01:40:43.323
it's definitely a good discussion to have

01:40:43.422 --> 01:40:44.944
though.

01:40:45.003 --> 01:40:45.564
Yeah, for sure.

01:40:45.824 --> 01:40:46.905
And I'm definitely going to keep an eye

01:40:46.926 --> 01:40:47.907
out for it next time I buy a

01:40:47.947 --> 01:40:48.527
new device now,

01:40:48.546 --> 01:40:49.667
because now I'm really curious.

01:40:50.127 --> 01:40:51.109
I think that would be great if it

01:40:51.149 --> 01:40:53.530
was a default prompt for sure.

01:40:53.570 --> 01:40:53.690
So.

01:40:57.001 --> 01:41:00.601
On that note, I think it's, I mean,

01:41:00.622 --> 01:41:02.923
that's all I had on that forum thread.

01:41:02.944 --> 01:41:04.224
So I think it's time to head over

01:41:04.264 --> 01:41:06.865
to some viewer questions.

01:41:07.845 --> 01:41:09.926
So we'll start with questions on our forum

01:41:09.987 --> 01:41:10.948
from paying members.

01:41:11.387 --> 01:41:12.689
If you are interested in becoming a

01:41:12.708 --> 01:41:12.969
member,

01:41:13.009 --> 01:41:14.829
you can go to privacyguides.org and click

01:41:14.949 --> 01:41:16.831
the red heart icon in the top right

01:41:16.951 --> 01:41:17.230
corner.

01:41:17.791 --> 01:41:20.132
of the page but we only had one

01:41:20.153 --> 01:41:23.814
question this week on our initial um on

01:41:23.854 --> 01:41:27.136
our forum post about this this topic and

01:41:27.157 --> 01:41:30.019
uh this is from expert forty forty eight

01:41:30.059 --> 01:41:31.260
seventy who says what are the privacy

01:41:31.279 --> 01:41:32.921
implications of using an alternative front

01:41:33.041 --> 01:41:35.023
end that fetches content directly from the

01:41:35.063 --> 01:41:36.743
original service rather than proxying it

01:41:37.104 --> 01:41:39.565
um you say something like something

01:41:39.645 --> 01:41:42.228
invidious instances do uh so it will be

01:41:43.769 --> 01:41:45.751
It will be, while using a popular VPN,

01:41:45.810 --> 01:41:47.032
how does that compare to just using the

01:41:47.072 --> 01:41:48.573
original website with a content blocker

01:41:48.592 --> 01:41:49.434
like uBlock Origin?

01:41:49.833 --> 01:41:50.854
My experience has been that browser

01:41:50.875 --> 01:41:52.275
fingerprinting techniques can still track

01:41:52.376 --> 01:41:53.155
users easily,

01:41:53.277 --> 01:41:54.597
even with content blockers enabled,

01:41:54.618 --> 01:41:55.918
so I'm wondering whether non-proxying

01:41:55.958 --> 01:42:00.002
frontends offer different protections.

01:42:01.222 --> 01:42:01.762
I'll be honest.

01:42:02.104 --> 01:42:03.645
I'm not super familiar with the technical

01:42:03.744 --> 01:42:04.666
aspects of frontends,

01:42:04.845 --> 01:42:06.667
so I'm not sure which ones proxy and

01:42:06.686 --> 01:42:07.408
which ones don't.

01:42:07.427 --> 01:42:10.831
I can talk about it if you want.

01:42:12.182 --> 01:42:13.264
Um, I'll let you go first then.

01:42:13.304 --> 01:42:14.704
Cause you probably know more about this

01:42:14.744 --> 01:42:16.125
than I do.

01:42:16.246 --> 01:42:16.525
Yeah.

01:42:16.546 --> 01:42:18.407
So basically there's, uh,

01:42:18.426 --> 01:42:19.927
I guess let's talk about the main two

01:42:20.047 --> 01:42:20.627
ones here,

01:42:20.688 --> 01:42:22.849
but like we're talking about piped and

01:42:22.989 --> 01:42:24.730
NVIDIAs, at least the web-based ones.

01:42:25.310 --> 01:42:27.112
So, um, by default,

01:42:27.952 --> 01:42:30.054
as far as I'm aware, like a lot,

01:42:30.134 --> 01:42:31.595
it depends on the instance, right?

01:42:31.614 --> 01:42:33.395
Because these are like decentralized

01:42:33.416 --> 01:42:33.956
services.

01:42:33.996 --> 01:42:35.457
So it depends on what the instance is

01:42:35.497 --> 01:42:35.997
configured.

01:42:36.717 --> 01:42:38.798
So the piped, um,

01:42:40.235 --> 01:42:41.957
Piped uses a piped proxy.

01:42:42.037 --> 01:42:44.521
So it's actually your requests to YouTube

01:42:44.561 --> 01:42:46.264
are going through a separate,

01:42:46.784 --> 01:42:48.546
the server that you're connecting to for

01:42:48.567 --> 01:42:49.087
the websites,

01:42:49.228 --> 01:42:51.050
basically they're proxying the requests on

01:42:51.090 --> 01:42:51.831
your behalf.

01:42:52.511 --> 01:42:54.814
And the issue with this sort of method,

01:42:54.875 --> 01:42:55.195
right,

01:42:55.355 --> 01:42:55.475
is

01:42:56.434 --> 01:42:58.574
it's a lot easier to be blocked, right?

01:42:58.595 --> 01:43:00.315
Because if there's ten thousand people

01:43:00.435 --> 01:43:03.056
accessing a piped instance, it's going to,

01:43:03.077 --> 01:43:04.018
YouTube's going to block that.

01:43:04.078 --> 01:43:05.877
They're going to think you're a bot,

01:43:05.978 --> 01:43:06.639
you're spamming.

01:43:07.819 --> 01:43:09.239
So that's the issue that we kind of

01:43:09.260 --> 01:43:09.979
have with piped.

01:43:10.600 --> 01:43:13.141
They're kind of getting blocked a lot and

01:43:13.561 --> 01:43:16.703
the access is not as good.

01:43:16.783 --> 01:43:18.123
NVIDIUS in this instance,

01:43:18.703 --> 01:43:20.045
it actually plays

01:43:20.782 --> 01:43:22.484
basically what it does is it strips out

01:43:22.604 --> 01:43:25.807
all the add-in tracking technology from

01:43:25.847 --> 01:43:27.390
the YouTube website and it will actually

01:43:27.409 --> 01:43:29.533
play the video directly from Google.

01:43:29.712 --> 01:43:31.354
So you're still making a connection to

01:43:31.414 --> 01:43:32.155
Google itself.

01:43:34.001 --> 01:43:34.641
Again, though,

01:43:34.662 --> 01:43:36.141
there's a setting in the settings called

01:43:36.222 --> 01:43:37.042
proxy videos,

01:43:37.103 --> 01:43:39.003
and that will proxy it through the NVIDIA

01:43:39.064 --> 01:43:39.503
instance.

01:43:40.323 --> 01:43:41.984
But by default,

01:43:42.704 --> 01:43:44.685
it should play it directly from Google.

01:43:45.827 --> 01:43:48.108
So the reason this is kind of also

01:43:48.148 --> 01:43:49.689
becoming a problem is because a lot of

01:43:50.569 --> 01:43:52.630
VPN servers are getting restricted and

01:43:52.649 --> 01:43:55.051
they require you to sign in to play

01:43:55.070 --> 01:43:55.490
videos.

01:43:57.801 --> 01:43:57.981
Yeah,

01:43:58.122 --> 01:43:59.644
there's like more restrictions being made.

01:43:59.684 --> 01:44:00.884
So with NVIDIA,

01:44:01.104 --> 01:44:02.626
you can actually check this yourself,

01:44:02.706 --> 01:44:02.886
right?

01:44:02.905 --> 01:44:04.768
You can use uBlock Origin and you can

01:44:04.828 --> 01:44:07.069
see the connections that the website is

01:44:07.088 --> 01:44:07.369
making.

01:44:07.409 --> 01:44:08.810
You'll see it's connecting to Google

01:44:08.831 --> 01:44:09.150
Video.

01:44:10.431 --> 01:44:13.213
So your IP address is visible to YouTube

01:44:13.253 --> 01:44:14.015
itself, right?

01:44:14.916 --> 01:44:16.617
But there's significantly less tracking

01:44:16.657 --> 01:44:17.478
happening because

01:44:18.198 --> 01:44:20.640
the JavaScript on YouTube's website isn't

01:44:20.740 --> 01:44:21.502
actually loading,

01:44:21.962 --> 01:44:24.244
which is the usual concern, right?

01:44:25.145 --> 01:44:27.929
So YouTube will know that your IP address

01:44:28.048 --> 01:44:30.030
is pulling a video from their servers,

01:44:30.671 --> 01:44:30.931
but

01:44:32.688 --> 01:44:32.868
Yeah,

01:44:32.988 --> 01:44:34.849
then we can also talk about like FreeTube,

01:44:35.448 --> 01:44:36.908
and that does give you the option when

01:44:36.929 --> 01:44:38.010
you're setting it up if you want to

01:44:38.029 --> 01:44:40.010
do fully local playback.

01:44:40.029 --> 01:44:41.551
So the same thing as NVIDIA is pulling

01:44:41.570 --> 01:44:42.831
the video directly from Google,

01:44:42.911 --> 01:44:44.631
or you can also use a piped proxy,

01:44:45.872 --> 01:44:47.153
which like we talked about,

01:44:47.252 --> 01:44:48.193
it can have issues,

01:44:48.493 --> 01:44:50.594
but it does offer more privacy because

01:44:51.194 --> 01:44:53.074
your IP address isn't being directly

01:44:53.135 --> 01:44:55.456
exposed to Google itself.

01:44:56.216 --> 01:44:56.376
So

01:44:57.153 --> 01:44:59.340
Another thing here is using a VPN and

01:44:59.359 --> 01:45:01.586
then using NVIDIUS or like a local,

01:45:02.027 --> 01:45:03.291
locally fetching these videos,

01:45:03.371 --> 01:45:04.314
it's going to be a lot less

01:45:05.395 --> 01:45:07.096
easy to track it because you're using an

01:45:07.216 --> 01:45:08.877
IP address that a bunch of other users

01:45:08.917 --> 01:45:09.238
have.

01:45:10.858 --> 01:45:12.899
So I think that's basically kind of the

01:45:12.939 --> 01:45:13.319
rundown.

01:45:13.380 --> 01:45:16.820
I wouldn't use NVIDIUS if you are on

01:45:16.860 --> 01:45:18.761
like a residential connection because

01:45:18.921 --> 01:45:20.422
it'll just be linked to your IP address.

01:45:20.443 --> 01:45:22.023
They'll just see your residential IP

01:45:22.042 --> 01:45:23.444
address accessing all the videos.

01:45:23.463 --> 01:45:24.845
It'll be easier for them to track it.

01:45:25.505 --> 01:45:28.405
So I'd say try using a VPN and

01:45:28.546 --> 01:45:30.087
try using NVIDIUS and

01:45:31.974 --> 01:45:35.797
directly fetching the videos over pipes

01:45:35.898 --> 01:45:38.440
because pipes is usually locked a lot more

01:45:38.480 --> 01:45:39.042
commonly.

01:45:39.882 --> 01:45:42.765
So hopefully that answers the privacy

01:45:42.805 --> 01:45:44.186
question about this topic.

01:45:44.226 --> 01:45:45.108
It's kind of confusing,

01:45:45.148 --> 01:45:46.909
but if I didn't answer it well,

01:45:47.029 --> 01:45:47.530
just let me know.

01:45:49.957 --> 01:45:50.296
Cool.

01:45:50.317 --> 01:45:50.578
Thank you.

01:45:51.497 --> 01:45:53.020
I think it's also just one thing I

01:45:53.039 --> 01:45:54.581
want to throw out is we don't really

01:45:54.661 --> 01:45:57.884
know much about browser fingerprinting.

01:45:58.024 --> 01:46:00.265
Like I made like a year ago,

01:46:00.445 --> 01:46:02.448
I made a video about that over on

01:46:03.007 --> 01:46:03.708
my YouTube.

01:46:03.849 --> 01:46:05.590
And the thing I learned is that a

01:46:05.630 --> 01:46:06.030
lot of it

01:46:07.488 --> 01:46:08.670
I mean, there's like two categories.

01:46:08.689 --> 01:46:10.390
There's the people who are like marketing

01:46:10.430 --> 01:46:11.270
companies who are like, yeah,

01:46:11.291 --> 01:46:12.871
we can fingerprint anybody anywhere.

01:46:12.890 --> 01:46:13.712
And it's like, okay,

01:46:13.872 --> 01:46:14.851
and I'm going to take you with a

01:46:14.891 --> 01:46:16.353
grain of salt because you'll say anything

01:46:16.372 --> 01:46:16.993
to make a sale.

01:46:17.512 --> 01:46:19.314
And then there's the technical people who

01:46:19.354 --> 01:46:20.654
are just like literally everything can be

01:46:20.694 --> 01:46:21.295
fingerprinted.

01:46:21.914 --> 01:46:24.095
And like the privacy people who say this.

01:46:24.115 --> 01:46:26.096
And I think the issue is we don't

01:46:26.216 --> 01:46:27.318
actually know for sure

01:46:28.097 --> 01:46:28.939
how prevalent it is,

01:46:29.019 --> 01:46:30.640
which techniques they're actually using.

01:46:31.159 --> 01:46:32.600
I've seen all kinds of proofs of concept

01:46:32.640 --> 01:46:35.082
about CSS can be fingerprinted if you do

01:46:35.122 --> 01:46:35.542
it right.

01:46:36.743 --> 01:46:38.585
A lot of extensions can be fingerprinted.

01:46:39.525 --> 01:46:40.766
There's so many different ways to do it,

01:46:41.186 --> 01:46:43.328
but we don't know for sure what ways

01:46:43.368 --> 01:46:45.289
they're doing and what ways they're using.

01:46:46.130 --> 01:46:47.230
I'm not saying not to worry about it.

01:46:47.291 --> 01:46:48.891
I just want to point that out.

01:46:49.011 --> 01:46:49.412
It's really...

01:46:50.453 --> 01:46:52.635
um it's not like you block origin does

01:46:52.694 --> 01:46:53.996
nothing i know it does block a lot

01:46:54.015 --> 01:46:56.658
of stuff and then you know brave obviously

01:46:56.679 --> 01:46:58.860
has a lot of built-in protections firefox

01:46:58.921 --> 01:47:00.141
especially with the setting changes that

01:47:00.162 --> 01:47:02.144
we recommend offers really good protection

01:47:02.524 --> 01:47:04.586
it's obviously not perfect um if you need

01:47:04.666 --> 01:47:06.847
perfection or as close to perfection as

01:47:06.868 --> 01:47:08.168
you can get you need something like tor

01:47:08.189 --> 01:47:09.551
and hunix but at that point you're

01:47:09.570 --> 01:47:12.172
probably not streaming youtube so um just

01:47:12.193 --> 01:47:13.154
something to keep in mind there's still

01:47:13.173 --> 01:47:16.056
definitely a use a place for those so

01:47:16.809 --> 01:47:18.149
I mean, I think there's definitely,

01:47:18.269 --> 01:47:20.850
we do have some research that has been

01:47:20.890 --> 01:47:22.591
done specifically on browser

01:47:22.610 --> 01:47:23.211
fingerprinting.

01:47:23.230 --> 01:47:25.072
Like when I was looking into,

01:47:25.851 --> 01:47:27.431
like we also did a video here at

01:47:27.471 --> 01:47:28.153
Privacy Guides.

01:47:28.193 --> 01:47:29.872
We interviewed someone about it as well.

01:47:31.474 --> 01:47:33.713
There are at least some hard facts about

01:47:33.774 --> 01:47:33.894
it.

01:47:34.354 --> 01:47:34.914
So, I mean,

01:47:35.055 --> 01:47:37.095
definitely go maybe check out that video.

01:47:37.114 --> 01:47:38.376
We did talk a little bit with...

01:47:39.275 --> 01:47:41.759
um we got information from someone at the

01:47:41.779 --> 01:47:43.560
tour project who works on a lot of

01:47:43.581 --> 01:47:45.963
the fingerprinting stuff for that um so

01:47:46.003 --> 01:47:48.988
definitely look at that i think the um

01:47:49.047 --> 01:47:50.469
there's definitely papers that have been

01:47:50.529 --> 01:47:52.591
done when i was researching for that video

01:47:52.631 --> 01:47:55.015
there was quite a lot of papers about

01:47:57.551 --> 01:47:59.193
specifically talking about stuff like

01:47:59.512 --> 01:48:02.854
entropy and you know how that affects the

01:48:02.894 --> 01:48:05.835
fingerprint I guess I think Nate's right

01:48:05.875 --> 01:48:07.854
though just like we don't really have the

01:48:07.895 --> 01:48:10.716
specifics of what people what companies

01:48:10.756 --> 01:48:12.096
are doing because it's kind of hard to

01:48:12.136 --> 01:48:16.457
know right but I think going off the

01:48:16.497 --> 01:48:20.698
research that we do have you know

01:48:20.759 --> 01:48:22.500
increasing entropy you know like with Tor

01:48:22.520 --> 01:48:23.560
browser I think there's

01:48:24.707 --> 01:48:25.327
there's pretty much,

01:48:25.448 --> 01:48:27.149
there is basically proof at this point

01:48:27.168 --> 01:48:28.029
that like, you know,

01:48:28.109 --> 01:48:29.090
if you use Tor browser,

01:48:29.130 --> 01:48:30.810
if you take all the precautions as

01:48:30.871 --> 01:48:33.432
possible, you're not going to be,

01:48:35.514 --> 01:48:36.654
you're not going to be able to identify

01:48:36.715 --> 01:48:38.036
someone specifically with their

01:48:38.055 --> 01:48:39.936
fingerprint if they're using something

01:48:39.976 --> 01:48:40.717
like Tor browser.

01:48:41.838 --> 01:48:44.260
But I think we have gotten to a

01:48:44.319 --> 01:48:46.002
point where so many tools just have all

01:48:46.021 --> 01:48:46.601
this built in,

01:48:46.641 --> 01:48:48.182
like Firefox and Brave both have

01:48:48.203 --> 01:48:50.104
fingerprint protection built in by default

01:48:50.144 --> 01:48:50.345
now.

01:48:51.545 --> 01:48:52.326
So it's like,

01:48:54.005 --> 01:48:54.484
Basically,

01:48:55.586 --> 01:48:57.046
we're getting to a point where these

01:48:57.087 --> 01:49:01.010
protections are becoming pretty

01:49:01.069 --> 01:49:01.711
mainstream.

01:49:01.751 --> 01:49:03.072
But I think if you need something a

01:49:03.112 --> 01:49:03.992
bit more extreme,

01:49:04.032 --> 01:49:06.835
then something like Molvado Tor is

01:49:06.875 --> 01:49:09.457
definitely going to offer better

01:49:09.476 --> 01:49:09.896
protection.

01:49:11.842 --> 01:49:12.923
Yeah, just to be clear, like you said,

01:49:12.963 --> 01:49:14.885
we have a lot of research into how

01:49:14.904 --> 01:49:16.645
good the browsers are at resisting it.

01:49:16.666 --> 01:49:17.747
We just don't have a lot of research

01:49:17.766 --> 01:49:20.188
into how many companies are doing it,

01:49:20.268 --> 01:49:21.769
what exact techniques they're using,

01:49:21.828 --> 01:49:22.689
how common it is.

01:49:23.109 --> 01:49:24.671
I assume it's pretty common.

01:49:24.871 --> 01:49:27.032
I assume that a lot of companies are

01:49:27.051 --> 01:49:27.492
doing it.

01:49:28.472 --> 01:49:30.373
They don't tell us because it's kind of

01:49:30.394 --> 01:49:32.114
like their secret sauce for marketing,

01:49:32.154 --> 01:49:33.595
and this is why we're so effective.

01:49:34.396 --> 01:49:35.856
But yeah, it's just...

01:49:37.018 --> 01:49:38.059
I guess what I'm getting at is I

01:49:38.078 --> 01:49:40.440
think uBlock Origin and a good privacy

01:49:40.461 --> 01:49:42.082
browser is probably a lot more effective

01:49:42.101 --> 01:49:43.023
than we give it credit for.

01:49:43.122 --> 01:49:45.125
But I mean,

01:49:45.244 --> 01:49:46.805
I'll definitely never complain about

01:49:46.845 --> 01:49:49.307
somebody going the extra mile if they feel

01:49:49.328 --> 01:49:49.788
the need to.

01:49:50.009 --> 01:49:52.850
So it doesn't hurt.

01:49:52.930 --> 01:49:54.752
Yeah, I think it's definitely...

01:49:55.953 --> 01:49:57.354
I'll just push people towards...

01:49:57.614 --> 01:49:59.195
I know Nate did a video about it

01:49:59.216 --> 01:49:59.537
as well.

01:49:59.556 --> 01:50:00.478
I thought that was quite good.

01:50:00.518 --> 01:50:01.497
We also did a video.

01:50:01.557 --> 01:50:02.319
Definitely check out,

01:50:02.479 --> 01:50:03.819
get different perspectives on it

01:50:03.859 --> 01:50:04.240
because...

01:50:05.416 --> 01:50:07.177
uh there's definitely a lot of different

01:50:07.217 --> 01:50:09.300
opinions right because we've got we've got

01:50:09.340 --> 01:50:11.802
the tor people we've got the brave people

01:50:11.823 --> 01:50:13.925
we've got the firefox people they've all

01:50:13.944 --> 01:50:16.087
got different uh we've got the ark and

01:50:16.106 --> 01:50:18.710
fox people they've got a different uh

01:50:18.750 --> 01:50:20.771
perspective than the tor browser people so

01:50:21.292 --> 01:50:23.734
you know guess go to different places for

01:50:23.775 --> 01:50:25.537
information try and uh

01:50:26.792 --> 01:50:28.573
try and understand the topic as best as

01:50:28.613 --> 01:50:28.932
you can.

01:50:28.972 --> 01:50:30.432
Hopefully the resources that we've put out

01:50:30.472 --> 01:50:32.434
there is good enough to kind of make

01:50:32.753 --> 01:50:33.694
a good judgment on it.

01:50:33.753 --> 01:50:35.774
But like, like Nate said, like,

01:50:35.835 --> 01:50:37.615
I feel like when we talk about this

01:50:37.636 --> 01:50:39.855
stuff, it is kind of an extreme topic.

01:50:39.916 --> 01:50:40.997
Like, you know,

01:50:41.037 --> 01:50:43.136
having a privacy browser and a new block

01:50:43.197 --> 01:50:44.238
origin, like Nate said,

01:50:44.278 --> 01:50:45.938
is like going to be better than ninety

01:50:45.997 --> 01:50:47.179
nine percent of people.

01:50:47.298 --> 01:50:50.880
So just put it in perspective.

01:50:53.018 --> 01:50:54.198
Which on that note,

01:50:54.800 --> 01:50:57.140
I've been perusing the live chat here.

01:50:57.282 --> 01:50:58.662
And I think there's only one question we

01:50:58.682 --> 01:50:59.663
haven't addressed so far.

01:50:59.764 --> 01:51:02.926
But it actually kind of touches on this

01:51:02.945 --> 01:51:03.386
a little bit.

01:51:04.247 --> 01:51:04.967
And it says,

01:51:05.127 --> 01:51:06.748
this comes from anonymous three four four

01:51:06.809 --> 01:51:07.890
here in the stream yard chat.

01:51:08.291 --> 01:51:09.771
Threat modeling should be deferred to

01:51:09.872 --> 01:51:11.453
experts that you personally consult on

01:51:11.592 --> 01:51:12.354
over and over again.

01:51:12.453 --> 01:51:14.055
It's unfeasible for an individual to know

01:51:14.154 --> 01:51:15.697
every single vulnerability and scenario

01:51:15.716 --> 01:51:16.778
that they have to protect against.

01:51:17.198 --> 01:51:18.618
Do you guys plan to provide privacy

01:51:18.658 --> 01:51:20.841
consulting in the near or far future?

01:51:23.619 --> 01:51:23.800
I mean,

01:51:23.939 --> 01:51:25.661
I don't speak for everybody around here.

01:51:25.860 --> 01:51:27.681
I don't think we're planning anything like

01:51:27.721 --> 01:51:28.582
that as far as I know.

01:51:29.502 --> 01:51:30.764
I certainly haven't heard anything about

01:51:30.804 --> 01:51:30.923
it.

01:51:31.203 --> 01:51:33.225
Probably not would be my guess.

01:51:33.786 --> 01:51:34.886
Not anytime soon, at least.

01:51:35.886 --> 01:51:37.408
I don't know if we make far.

01:51:37.608 --> 01:51:38.948
I personally do not make far,

01:51:38.988 --> 01:51:41.529
far future plans because you never know

01:51:41.550 --> 01:51:42.050
what will happen.

01:51:42.170 --> 01:51:42.930
Right.

01:51:42.970 --> 01:51:44.832
I've had my long term plans thrown into

01:51:44.851 --> 01:51:46.332
chaos multiple times throughout the course

01:51:46.353 --> 01:51:46.693
of my life.

01:51:46.712 --> 01:51:48.054
So I've given up on long term plans.

01:51:48.533 --> 01:51:49.954
I just worry about the next five years

01:51:49.994 --> 01:51:51.675
or so and go from there.

01:51:51.774 --> 01:51:55.436
But I do want to say that threat

01:51:55.457 --> 01:51:57.556
modeling I don't think has to be an

01:51:57.657 --> 01:52:00.198
expert thing because there's multiple

01:52:00.217 --> 01:52:01.458
steps to threat modeling, right?

01:52:01.639 --> 01:52:04.979
And one of those steps is basically

01:52:05.039 --> 01:52:09.642
figuring out –

01:52:08.354 --> 01:52:09.654
how bad are the risks if i fail

01:52:09.994 --> 01:52:11.456
like that's that's one of the steps right

01:52:11.595 --> 01:52:14.237
and so i think for a lot of

01:52:14.256 --> 01:52:15.377
people like that's i think that's kind of

01:52:15.398 --> 01:52:16.278
where we come up with the idea of

01:52:16.297 --> 01:52:17.779
like a low threat model you know if

01:52:17.798 --> 01:52:21.020
somebody's like i'm gonna pick on people

01:52:21.060 --> 01:52:22.841
here but back in the day i used

01:52:22.862 --> 01:52:25.023
to see people having like really really

01:52:25.063 --> 01:52:27.384
extreme meltdowns where they were like oh

01:52:27.423 --> 01:52:29.324
my god i connected to youtube once and

01:52:29.364 --> 01:52:31.166
i didn't have my vpn on like i'm

01:52:31.225 --> 01:52:32.167
so screwed and it's like

01:52:33.699 --> 01:52:34.199
Calm down.

01:52:35.100 --> 01:52:35.940
It's not that big a deal.

01:52:36.360 --> 01:52:37.822
Google has one IP address.

01:52:39.021 --> 01:52:40.622
It probably rotates anyways in a lot of

01:52:40.662 --> 01:52:41.622
parts of the country or a lot of

01:52:41.662 --> 01:52:42.524
countries around the world.

01:52:43.644 --> 01:52:45.484
The results for most people are not that

01:52:45.505 --> 01:52:45.904
big a deal.

01:52:46.045 --> 01:52:48.966
And again, going to what I said earlier,

01:52:48.985 --> 01:52:50.146
if your threat model is so high that

01:52:50.186 --> 01:52:51.506
Google can't have your one IP address,

01:52:51.527 --> 01:52:52.528
you probably shouldn't be going to YouTube

01:52:52.547 --> 01:52:53.068
in the first place.

01:52:53.127 --> 01:52:53.547
But anyways,

01:52:53.608 --> 01:52:55.328
my point is I don't think it's something

01:52:55.349 --> 01:52:57.250
that everybody necessarily has to go see a

01:52:57.270 --> 01:52:57.890
professional for.

01:52:58.873 --> 01:53:00.055
And I say this as somebody who has

01:53:00.095 --> 01:53:01.055
done consulting in the past.

01:53:02.676 --> 01:53:03.237
I think, yes,

01:53:03.478 --> 01:53:04.698
if you have a very high threat model,

01:53:04.719 --> 01:53:05.019
then yeah,

01:53:05.038 --> 01:53:06.539
you probably shouldn't just be winging it

01:53:06.720 --> 01:53:08.702
and trying to piece together a bunch of

01:53:08.962 --> 01:53:10.502
random websites and YouTube videos.

01:53:10.922 --> 01:53:11.644
But at the same time,

01:53:11.663 --> 01:53:12.484
like if you're just like, dude,

01:53:12.604 --> 01:53:13.786
I'm not an activist, I'm not,

01:53:14.365 --> 01:53:16.328
uh political figure i'm not super i just

01:53:16.708 --> 01:53:17.970
i just want my privacy i just want

01:53:17.989 --> 01:53:19.591
to not get targeted ads i just want

01:53:19.631 --> 01:53:22.055
people to not be stalking me but it's

01:53:22.095 --> 01:53:23.256
not that big a deal and i'm not

01:53:23.296 --> 01:53:24.818
willing to bend over backwards i mean

01:53:24.837 --> 01:53:25.958
that's part of a threat model too right

01:53:25.998 --> 01:53:27.119
how much effort are you willing to go

01:53:27.140 --> 01:53:28.681
through because not everybody is willing

01:53:28.721 --> 01:53:29.823
to go through the same amount of effort

01:53:30.323 --> 01:53:31.324
and i'm going to say that again because

01:53:31.345 --> 01:53:32.105
i feel like a lot of people in

01:53:32.126 --> 01:53:33.207
the privacy community forget that

01:53:33.506 --> 01:53:34.868
Not everybody is willing to go through the

01:53:34.887 --> 01:53:36.769
same amount of effort and that's fine.

01:53:37.229 --> 01:53:38.770
As long as like their threat model is

01:53:38.789 --> 01:53:39.211
being met.

01:53:39.291 --> 01:53:42.592
So yeah, it's an, I don't know.

01:53:42.693 --> 01:53:44.694
I think if you want to get consulting,

01:53:45.293 --> 01:53:45.533
I mean,

01:53:46.375 --> 01:53:47.135
if that's something you want to do,

01:53:47.154 --> 01:53:47.956
that'll help you sleep at night,

01:53:47.975 --> 01:53:48.475
go for it.

01:53:48.496 --> 01:53:49.457
But I don't think it's something that

01:53:50.197 --> 01:53:52.158
should only be deferred to by experts.

01:53:52.238 --> 01:53:53.698
Cause I mean, we're human too.

01:53:53.759 --> 01:53:54.399
There's no like,

01:53:55.378 --> 01:53:57.822
governing board that certifies privacy

01:53:57.902 --> 01:54:02.106
experts or anything so I don't know yeah

01:54:02.287 --> 01:54:03.509
I just that's my thoughts

01:54:04.579 --> 01:54:04.800
Yeah,

01:54:05.000 --> 01:54:07.141
it's like one of these things where like

01:54:07.282 --> 01:54:08.301
I feel like, you know,

01:54:08.521 --> 01:54:09.783
there's certain things where you can just

01:54:09.823 --> 01:54:11.283
throw money at something and kind of

01:54:11.363 --> 01:54:13.024
remove a bunch of the effort here.

01:54:13.085 --> 01:54:14.905
Like I feel like going through and trying

01:54:14.926 --> 01:54:16.627
to understand what are the best tools,

01:54:17.307 --> 01:54:18.047
what do I need to do?

01:54:18.108 --> 01:54:19.849
Like it is kind of time consuming.

01:54:19.929 --> 01:54:20.829
Like Nate was saying,

01:54:20.869 --> 01:54:24.431
like not everyone has hours every day to

01:54:24.492 --> 01:54:25.453
go through an hour.

01:54:25.993 --> 01:54:26.313
you know,

01:54:26.573 --> 01:54:29.014
work out the tools and update things.

01:54:29.434 --> 01:54:29.715
So, I mean,

01:54:29.774 --> 01:54:31.154
it can make sense to throw money at

01:54:31.194 --> 01:54:31.555
something.

01:54:31.935 --> 01:54:33.076
I don't think you need to.

01:54:33.416 --> 01:54:35.016
I think everything is available for free.

01:54:35.056 --> 01:54:35.256
Like,

01:54:35.317 --> 01:54:38.518
we try really hard to make things

01:54:38.578 --> 01:54:39.838
accessible to everybody.

01:54:40.298 --> 01:54:41.840
Like, we don't want to paywall stuff.

01:54:42.859 --> 01:54:43.060
You know,

01:54:43.079 --> 01:54:45.440
we offer benefits to members who give us

01:54:45.501 --> 01:54:46.761
donations because, you know,

01:54:46.782 --> 01:54:48.942
it's the least we can do for supporting

01:54:49.002 --> 01:54:49.182
us.

01:54:49.283 --> 01:54:50.682
But I think, you know,

01:54:51.203 --> 01:54:54.744
if there's something that you want to kind

01:54:54.805 --> 01:54:54.864
of

01:54:55.685 --> 01:54:58.146
easy mode you can talk to an expert

01:54:58.287 --> 01:54:59.787
i mean i'm not going to recommend it

01:54:59.847 --> 01:55:01.628
i think all the content is available for

01:55:01.668 --> 01:55:04.150
free and we've talked about this before

01:55:04.211 --> 01:55:08.533
like you can take things slowly like you

01:55:08.552 --> 01:55:10.935
can just do one thing every month like

01:55:10.954 --> 01:55:12.416
when you have a bit of spare time

01:55:12.456 --> 01:55:14.657
like you don't have to to go at

01:55:14.697 --> 01:55:16.918
like i think it was michael basil who

01:55:16.958 --> 01:55:19.841
said this it's like uh privacy is a

01:55:20.020 --> 01:55:21.862
marathon not a sprint um

01:55:23.277 --> 01:55:25.057
And I really like that quote because I

01:55:25.099 --> 01:55:27.479
think it's, you know,

01:55:27.500 --> 01:55:30.243
we think about things that we need to

01:55:30.283 --> 01:55:30.483
do,

01:55:30.582 --> 01:55:33.444
but I don't think we need to do

01:55:33.484 --> 01:55:35.207
things immediately and we don't need to

01:55:37.028 --> 01:55:38.829
try and blitz through everything in like

01:55:38.890 --> 01:55:39.529
two days.

01:55:40.150 --> 01:55:41.551
You certainly can if you want,

01:55:41.652 --> 01:55:43.873
but it's definitely not required.

01:55:45.015 --> 01:55:45.734
So, you know,

01:55:45.935 --> 01:55:48.978
definitely put that into perspective for

01:55:49.057 --> 01:55:49.118
you.

01:55:51.041 --> 01:55:52.543
I always love telling people how I was

01:55:52.564 --> 01:55:54.427
that lunatic that sat down one weekend and

01:55:54.448 --> 01:55:54.587
went,

01:55:54.707 --> 01:55:56.051
I'm going to move all my passwords to

01:55:56.091 --> 01:55:57.854
a password manager and I do not recommend

01:55:57.894 --> 01:55:58.635
it.

01:55:58.775 --> 01:55:58.895
But,

01:56:00.359 --> 01:56:01.219
Yeah,

01:56:01.259 --> 01:56:02.760
not to get into a big back and

01:56:02.779 --> 01:56:03.740
forth, but you said like, yeah,

01:56:03.761 --> 01:56:04.501
for the average person,

01:56:04.520 --> 01:56:05.622
threat modeling is not too high.

01:56:05.702 --> 01:56:05.862
I mean,

01:56:05.902 --> 01:56:06.962
everybody should threat model because

01:56:06.981 --> 01:56:07.863
that's how you know if you're doing

01:56:07.903 --> 01:56:08.122
enough,

01:56:08.722 --> 01:56:09.764
but you're like going back to the story

01:56:09.783 --> 01:56:10.564
of the Notification League,

01:56:10.604 --> 01:56:11.784
surely it would be better to consult an

01:56:11.824 --> 01:56:13.024
expert for blue team defenses.

01:56:13.104 --> 01:56:13.725
Yeah, again,

01:56:14.365 --> 01:56:15.546
if you're working on a professional blue

01:56:15.587 --> 01:56:15.867
team,

01:56:15.947 --> 01:56:17.868
if you are an activist who's facing jail

01:56:17.908 --> 01:56:18.868
time or could potentially,

01:56:18.908 --> 01:56:22.189
like sure at that point, but yeah,

01:56:22.510 --> 01:56:24.190
we don't offer consulting at this time.

01:56:24.331 --> 01:56:25.591
I don't know if there's any plans to,

01:56:25.671 --> 01:56:27.091
but I mean, if we do,

01:56:27.152 --> 01:56:28.073
I'm sure we'll announce it.

01:56:29.824 --> 01:56:31.786
I think one thing also to add to

01:56:31.826 --> 01:56:33.186
this comment, right, is they're saying,

01:56:33.207 --> 01:56:34.707
like, threat modeling, like,

01:56:34.728 --> 01:56:37.128
they're saying you should surely be better

01:56:37.149 --> 01:56:40.210
to consult an expert for blue team

01:56:40.229 --> 01:56:40.689
defenses.

01:56:40.810 --> 01:56:42.591
I think, you know,

01:56:42.671 --> 01:56:43.832
let's be a little bit honest here.

01:56:43.931 --> 01:56:44.511
This is, like,

01:56:44.551 --> 01:56:46.613
a very privileged position to be in.

01:56:46.632 --> 01:56:46.832
Like,

01:56:46.912 --> 01:56:49.274
not everyone has the money to just throw

01:56:49.293 --> 01:56:49.494
this.

01:56:49.555 --> 01:56:50.534
Like, we're talking about, like,

01:56:50.635 --> 01:56:52.855
decentralized groups of activists here.

01:56:52.916 --> 01:56:53.095
Like,

01:56:53.136 --> 01:56:55.938
we're not – I don't mean any shade

01:56:55.957 --> 01:56:56.537
when I say this,

01:56:56.578 --> 01:56:58.878
but a lot of organizations are not exactly

01:56:58.878 --> 01:57:00.020
–

01:57:00.470 --> 01:57:02.712
uh, they're cash strapped, right?

01:57:02.731 --> 01:57:04.511
Like they don't have money to do this

01:57:04.551 --> 01:57:05.073
sort of thing.

01:57:05.092 --> 01:57:05.353
Uh,

01:57:05.372 --> 01:57:06.972
it's not really that high on their list

01:57:07.012 --> 01:57:07.773
of priorities.

01:57:08.054 --> 01:57:10.453
Um, so if it's like a,

01:57:11.295 --> 01:57:13.354
a business where they have a certain

01:57:13.475 --> 01:57:14.114
budget to,

01:57:14.175 --> 01:57:15.235
to spend on this sort of thing,

01:57:15.815 --> 01:57:16.695
obviously makes sense,

01:57:16.756 --> 01:57:18.657
but that's why I think it's so important

01:57:18.676 --> 01:57:20.056
to offer this stuff free because,

01:57:20.096 --> 01:57:21.078
you know,

01:57:21.097 --> 01:57:25.238
there are people who are in less, uh,

01:57:25.279 --> 01:57:27.220
less privileged positions that also need

01:57:27.260 --> 01:57:28.000
this information.

01:57:28.319 --> 01:57:28.479
Um,

01:57:29.398 --> 01:57:31.198
And it should be accessible, right?

01:57:31.880 --> 01:57:34.761
So obviously, in the best case scenario,

01:57:34.820 --> 01:57:36.561
this person should have consulted an

01:57:36.681 --> 01:57:38.342
expert for blue team defenses.

01:57:38.423 --> 01:57:40.645
But I'm pretty sure that this person was

01:57:40.704 --> 01:57:42.605
probably not someone who had the money or

01:57:42.645 --> 01:57:45.908
the time to be investing in this sort

01:57:45.927 --> 01:57:47.788
of protection, I guess.

01:57:47.809 --> 01:57:54.372
Yeah, for sure.

01:57:54.393 --> 01:57:56.194
Taking one more look at the thread here.

01:57:56.274 --> 01:57:57.555
Doesn't look like anybody's added

01:57:57.595 --> 01:57:58.034
anything.

01:58:00.279 --> 01:58:01.917
Anything else you wanted to mention or

01:58:01.936 --> 01:58:02.341
call out?

01:58:04.737 --> 01:58:05.476
Not particularly.

01:58:05.578 --> 01:58:08.038
I guess if no one's got any extra

01:58:08.059 --> 01:58:08.559
questions,

01:58:08.618 --> 01:58:11.500
I guess we can move into the outro

01:58:11.539 --> 01:58:11.819
here.

01:58:12.320 --> 01:58:14.060
So all the updates from this week in

01:58:14.081 --> 01:58:16.061
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